SPGS vs NLCS

[Sharonpae]

Hi all
If your daughtee got into both schools excluding location which one would you choose?

The one you live closer to, so that she can have an easier life....
The one she likes most - as at 11 they can form an opinion; especially a bright girl with both offers....
The one where she has friends going to - if she has....
The one closer to where you as a family see yourself as being happier - if you are perfectly mobile...

These are both great schools. Can’t go wrong with either.

Is this a hypothetical as offers aren’t out yet?

If you get both and can’t decide - you’ll be able to see them again before the deadline.

There's a fairly large difference in the fees. Also, uniform vs no uniform. Ethnic diversity and economic diversity is different. See them both again if you have two offers.

horsemadmom I know SPGS has higher fees and no uniform. What's your understanding on the differences in ethnic and economic diversity, and from where did you get this understanding?

I have 2 NLCS DDs. It's very diverse and the coach network covers a wide area. DDs' friends are a pretty broad spectrum socioeconomically (for an indie). Lots of bursary girls. 30 different languages spoken at home. It feels more like a grammar- very unsnobby.
SPGS, when I looked, was very WASPy.

Haven’t seen NLCS mix, but Dd has started at SPGS and it didn’t appear WASPy to me. She has a nice mix of friends.

How many in her year are ethnic minorities?

What's your understanding on the differences in ethnic and economic diversity

NLCS has a massive number of girls from ethnic minority’s, I would say the majority are not white British Christian. They are predominantly from Indian and Jewish backgrounds with a lot from black and Chinese too. Many girls come from affluent backgrounds but equally there are a lot whose parents scrimp and save for the fees and live very modestly. SPGS is quite different in that respect

@horsemadmom

If you compare to the English demographics - where 85% are whites - than i’d say SPSG is - a lot less than that. And a fair share of the white girls are non-british and or mixed families with multiple languages spoken at home. Like my kids, for example.

The other large ethnic groups are Asian and Oriental.
And i’d say one group that is less than prominent is black. Not an issue specific to this school - same at most top schools and universities.

Not sure what point you are trying to make with this though. Secondary school intakes at top schools are a function of many things.

My experience of SPGS is not different to what others are saying about NLCS except that there is no predominant Ethnic group/s; it’s a genuine mix. I’m sure there are genuinely wealthy families but haven’t met any yet - mainly professional parents and definitely it is broader socioeconomically as well. Girls come from all over the wider London area. What I love about the school is the diversity of the staff and independent learning skills fostered and encouraged by the style of teaching.
OP you honestly have to visit the schools and make up your mind once offers are out - they may not advertise this but both will surely provide you with an opportunity to do this. It will be rare to find someone who can genuinely provide you with an insider/comparative view of both schools. Most people have made their choice and then many seem to think their impressions qualify as facts. Good luck making your choice, should you have it. Also I definitely wouldn’t discount distance as a factor.

NLCS ... Lots of bursary girls.

According to their financials, for the year ended 30 June 2017, 75 girls at NLCS senior school benefitted from bursaries, 51 of whom received full fee remission. In the same year, 88 girls at SPGS benefitted from bursaries, 58 of whom received full fee remission.

The total numbers of students in the senior schools are virtually identical. There's not a lot of difference here, certainly no evidence that more girls are on bursaries at NLCS than at SPGS.

Of course, this doesn't preclude the possibility that the (similar percentages of) non-bursary families are different at the two schools.

If you compare to the English demographics - where 85% are whites

As these are both day schools, if you're going to do such a comparison it would be more appropriate to use the demographics of London - where whites now represent under 60% of the population.

@expat96

Still not sure what you are trying to get to?
SPGS doesn’t represent Greater London demographic mix?
Or specifically Hammersmith borough’s?
Whites aren’t the majority there. It’s a mix of white and Asian and Oriental. With some black. Underrepresented as per local demographics - as it is in most top schools, unis and management positions.

It accepts based on performance. And ability to pay.
Systemic issues with racial balance/under-representation need to be solved on a country-wide basis. And not at a private secondary entry level.

@Jsku

What were you trying to do? You were the one who started throwing these numbers around. If you're going to use numbers then you should use relevant numbers. London is definitely a better proxy for SPGS's catchment area than England. Hammersmith may or may not be a better proxy than Greater London; I don't know how far girls travel to get to SPGS.

More to the point, though, the question at hand isn't how SPGS compares with England, Greater London or Hammersmith. It's how SPGS compares with NLCS.

@Expat96
Not sure any more.
OP asked about difference between schools.You brought up economic and ethnic diversity.
Someone mentioned SPGS being WASPy.

All I was saying - in my observation it isn’t. Whites aren’t a dominating majority there. It looks like a mix.
(Even if it’s a different mix from the demographics of neighbouring boroughs, of London, or the country)

And - in general - I am not sure if diversity is on top of my school choice criteria anyway.
For me it’s the education. The fact that my DD comes home she is excited about what she is doing there. That she has good friends and is generally a happy kid.
Her friends are a mix of religions and skin colours.
So - not sure what more to add.

TBH, I can hardly think of any London top academic day school to be predominantly white.

@Jsku

You brought up economic and ethnic diversity.

Actually, I didn't. horsemadmom brought them up. I merely asked for clarification about the differences in these diversities between the two schools. It turns out that she has little direct knowledge of SPGS. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that anyone on this thread has first-hand experience of both schools so we still don't know.

I've expressed no opinion as to which I regard as "better".

Wayland can you elaborate? Because my impression is that the standards and the pressure are at least as high as were when I was there nearly 20 years ago. The girls I met recently all seemed to feel absolute and total pressure to get perfect marks in everything, perfect slate of extracurricular activities, and all to get into oxbridge or RG or an Ivy League university. I never really thought about the fees, my parents and fellow students never discussed it at all whereas I had girls who told me openly that they all knew how expensive it was for their parents so they had to produce results commensurate with their privilege of having money lavished on their education. It seemed just as much of an academic school as it ever was, so v interested to hear why you think it's no longer like that.

Xiaoxiong This is the third post I’ve seen tonight on the education boards by Wayland about SPGS and SPS. It makes me wonder what their agenda is.

InterestingShipNames I haven't only posted about SPGS and SPS. I posted about other schools, as well as about schools and tuition in general. However, I know more about the schools in question than most others as they are so 'close to home'. SPGS was very near to the state school I attended. I knew a hand-full of girls who were attending SPGS, and I felt no animosity towards them at all. They all had to work very hard and conform to the school's rigorous academic regime. It was (and mostly still is) generally a very good exemplary school that other schools in the area would try to emulate.

Wayland - interesting that you say the intake has changed and now the school has to accommodate a wider range of academic abilities - this is certainly not the impression I got, quite the opposite, and they are so over subscribed that they can pick and choose on whatever criteria they wish. Is this a new policy I missed somewhere? Or is this your impression as a parent/OP?

I know that like almost all independent schools, with the notable exceptions of KSs at Eton or Scholars at Winchester they take other factors into account in addition to pure academic prowess but that of course assumes a solid foundation of academic achievement and other factors are then used to differentiate. It's like how Harvard has so many applicants they could fill the class 3 times over with kids with perfect grades and SAT scores so they take other factors into account and maybe end up taking some without perfect grades. But that doesn't mean that it has become some kind of fee paying comp for wealthy girls. There are other schools round the country that fit that description but I don't think SPGS does.

I agree with Xiaoxiog. My daughter is due to start at SPGS in Sept and we also had an offer from a top grammar school in the country - HBS.

While HBS already does what Wayland advocates for (rigorous academic selection and accepting anyone good enough, as far away as Reading and Birmingham), the issue is that it is clearly and materially underfunded.

On our part, it was very painful to turn HBS down for financial reasons but we chose to scrimp and pay SPGS instead. I know many cases similar to us - so much for Wayland's quality of student argument...

pasternak Snap! My dd also starts at SPGS in September. She had the offer of a place at Tiffin, which we turned down.