Year 2 teacher had to be corrected on pronunciation of Pepys

[CheshireSplat]

Interested to hear opinions on this.

DD's class are doing the great fire of London and their teacher was talking about the diary of Samuel "Peppis". DD's friend told him it was Peeps in the inimitable style of a 6 year old.

Should I be worried. New teacher to the school. I don't tend to interfere but I would've thought that was pretty general knowledge.

Then when he gave them times tables he did 2 x 1, 2 x 2, 2 x 3 etc which is the wrong way round.....

Happy to be told to wind my neck in!

Of course it is. And also, it’s hardly vital knowledge for successful life, is it? It’s not like he’s teaching them that 2+2=8? Even if the whole class copied him, the worst that would happen is that someone in the future would correct them.

Would you actually and honestly think a primary school teacher was an idiot and complain to the head about how he pronounced a name?!?

Learning times tables as a chant without actually understanding what they mean is the biggest waste of time going!

Well, it would be, if any maths teachers actually advocated doing that. They do not. It is a straw man position. Every single maths teacher, maths curriculum, maths textbook I have ever seen spends lots and lots of time teaching students how multiplication works and what it means. Committing tables to memory does not mean students are not learning what multiplication "means"---it means they are freeing up mental space for thinking about the higher-order parts of the problem they are dealing with.

Yes, like fractions. So easy if you k ow your times tables. So hard if you don’t.

I can’t think of any way to pronounce Bellshill than Bells Hill 😂

Oh, forgot Glessert (glassford), another local gem.

Bellshill is said Bellshill

And Kilncadzow and Culzean

(kil-Kay-gee with a hard G and Cull-ayn)

Many of my friends have mispronounced Bellshill by making it a shhhh sound in the middle which is why I mentioned it.

What? How should you pronounce Maryland?!

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/En-us-Maryland.ogg

Apparently it's Merryland!

Ooooh never thought of that with bellshill. Culzean is a good one, Norwich gets me every time too. Never been though! And the trains used to mangle Kingussie.

My point is, people mispronounce stuff, if it looks like a normal word to pronounce why would you check? Dont be a dick 🤷🏻‍♀️

Buggerbrexit completely agree! Love your username too

I once had to inform a teacher that the nazis weren't around in ww1.

Racecardriver wow, that is worth picking up on to be fair.

Yes yes yes Buggerbrexit exactly!

I met a descendant/ descended relative of old Samuel
First thing I asked was about pronunciation. He said he grew up saying PEEPiS , sort of like peeps but a subtle IS at the end. Not quite peeps not quite peepiss.

I was 8.
I was more confused than before.
Told him my class all liked to say Samuel PEE PISS. He kindly and patiently said " well, kids never change"

If the teacher has read extensively all about Samuel Pepys, but just never happened to have heard it pronounced correctly out loud (on a TV documentary or etc), I don’t think that’s an absolute outrage tbf.

I once had to ring someone called Mrs Featherstone Haugh - oh how she laughed at me because I didn’t know it was pronounced Fanshaw.

But if I was going to lead a unit on a topic, I would check out the pronunciation of any words that had tricky spellings and ambiguous pronunciations--it only takes a second to go on YouTube and find a video about Samuel Pepys. I would mention this to the teacher.

Seriously? How would that conversation go? "Mr. Johnson, Billy told me that mispronounced 'Pepys' yesterday. Might I suggest that in future you check any words you're uncertain of on YouTube before giving the lesson? Great."

Teachers aren't infallible. This is only the first of many mistakes that teachers will make in your child's classroom, and it's hardly a very serious one, given that (a) the accepted pronunciation is not at all obvious from the spelling, and (b) as evidenced by this thread alone, there are multiple alternative pronunciations in use.

I think "Should I be worried?" is a bit dramatic.

Wait til they do the Romans then prime your child to say ‘it’s actually said Kaiser’ when they start talking about Ceaser. Max points for pedantry. And no I wouldn’t worry about this - presumably this teacher is just not that interested in Samuel Pepys and I can’t blame them. Though this suggests they have sadly missed out on
Horrible histories which is a shame for them.

Re. The times tables - people taking about 6 cakes on 3 plates etc. That’s division! It’s only relevant to think about how many cakes on how many plates if you’re dividing - 6x3 and 3x6 are the same number always. 18 /3 and 18/6 have different answers which is what people seem to mean

There;s quite a lot to remember!

Hi1/1.1 changes within living memory. Where appropriate, these should be used to reveal aspects of change in national life
Hi1/1.2 events beyond living memory that are significant nationally or globally
e.g. the Great Fire of London, the first aeroplane flight or events commemorated through festivals or anniversaries
Hi1/1.3 the lives of significant individuals in the past who have contributed to national and international achievements. Some should be used to compare aspects of life in different periods
e.g. Elizabeth I and Queen Victoria, Christopher Columbus and Neil Armstrong, William Caxton and Tim Berners-Lee, Pieter Bruegel the Elder and LS Lowry, Rosa Parks and Emily Davison, Mary Seacole and/or Florence Nightingale and Edith Cavell and Edith Cavell
Hi1/1.3 significant historical events, people and places in their own locality.
Hi2/1.1 Pre-Roman Britain
Pupils should be taught about changes in Britain from the Stone Age to the Iron Age.This could include:
late Neolithic hunter-gatherers and early farmers, for example, Skara Brae,Bronze Age religion, technology and travel, for example, Stonehenge,Iron Age hill forts: tribal kingdoms, farming, art and culture
Hi2/1.2 Roman Britain
Pupils should be taught about the Roman empire and its impact on Britain
This could include:
Julius Caesar’s attempted invasion in 55-54 BC
the Roman Empire by AD 42 and the power of its army
successful invasion by Claudius and conquest, including Hadrian’s Wall
British resistance, for example, Boudica
"Romanisation" of Britain: sites such as Caerwent and the impact of technology, culture and beliefs, including early Christianity
Hi2/1.3 Anglo-Saxons & Scots
Pupils should be taught about Britain’s settlement by Anglo-Saxons and Scots
This could include:
Roman withdrawal from Britain in c. AD 410 and the fall of the western Roman Empire
Scots invasions from Ireland to north Britain (now Scotland)
Anglo-Saxon invasions, settlements and kingdoms: place names and village life
Anglo-Saxon art and culture
Christian conversion – Canterbury, Iona and Lindisfarne
Hi2/1.4 Anglo-Saxons & Vikings
Pupils should be taught about the Viking and Anglo-Saxon struggle for the Kingdom of England to the time of Edward the Confessor
This could include:
Viking raids and invasion
resistance by Alfred the Great and Athelstan, first king of England
further Viking invasions and Danegeld
Anglo-Saxon laws and justice
Edward the Confessor and his death in 1066
Hi2/2.1 Local History
Pupils should be taught about an aspect of local history
For example:
a depth study linked to one of the British areas of study listed above
a study over time tracing how several aspects of national history are reflected in the locality (this can go beyond 1066)
a study of an aspect of history or a site dating from a period beyond 1066 that is significant in the locality.
Hi2/2.2 Extended chronological study
Pupils should be taught a study of an aspect or theme in British history that extends pupils’ chronological knowledge beyond 1066
For example:
the changing power of monarchs using case studies such as John, Anne and Victoria
changes in an aspect of social history, such as crime and punishment from the Anglo-Saxons to the present or leisure and entertainment in the 20th Century
the legacy of Greek or Roman culture (art, architecture or literature) on later periods in British history, including the present day
a significant turning point in British history, for example, the first railways or the Battle of Britain
Hi2/2.3 Ancient Civilizations
Pupils should be taught about the achievements of the earliest civilizations – an overview of where and when the first civilizations appeared and a depth study of one of the following:
Ancient Sumer;
The Indus Valley;
Ancient Egypt; or
The Shang Dynasty of Ancient China
Hi2/2.4 Ancient Greece
Pupils should be taught a study of Greek life and achievements and their influence on the western world
Hi2/2.5 Non-European Study
Pupils should be taught about a non-European society that provides contrasts with British history - one study chosen from:
early Islamic civilization, including a study of Baghdad c. AD 900;
Mayan civilization c. AD 900; or
Benin (West Africa) c. AD 900-1300

My friend once sat in on a class as a trainee in which the teacher confidently proclaimed that ‘Muslims come from a country called Islam’ light Pepys mispronunciation is nothing compared to that!

Thanks Persis for your post. I'm fairly sensitive and really don't like upsetting people which is why I wanted to gauge opinion on this thread. Appreciate your gentle answer.

I won't raise it with anyone, of course. The question only arose because they were discussing famous diarists. I could only name two, Pepys and Anne Frank, so I'm hardly claim to be the font of all knowledge!

Anyway, it's a wonderful small village school, I'm very happy with it.

Spanieleyes that's some list! Wow.

If it's true that all Year 2 pupils in England learn all about Samuel Pepys then I think that's a massive safe guarding issue. Why are you not all fuming??
Pepys had a lot more to say in his diaries about sexually assaulting his maids and the dreadful abscesses on his poor wife's vulva than he did about the Great Fire of London.

Times tables should not be taught like that. Of course they’re “correct” mathematically but I’ve never come across them taught like that (I tutor). My son taught me the pronounciation of Pepys when he was taught in year one.

"Safeguarding issue"--are you kidding?

Should we refrain from teaching children about anyone who had a dodgy private life? They don't include those bits in the lessons about Pepys, you know...

Seriously? How would that conversation go?

It would go something like a conversation in which something else was being discussed, during which I would mention at some point "By the wayit's "peeps" not "peppis"-yes, I know, weird pronunciation, isn't it? I also thought that was the pronunciation the first time I came across it and was a bit surprised when someone mentioned it to me...."

If it's not an embarrassing mistake then why feel embarrassed about mentioning it? I've corrected friends' pronunciation of things like this before (and they've corrected mine. Including the "Maryland" thing that was mentioned above, as I have many US friends).