7+ Entrance North London

[ScorpioMum]

Hi all, we're looking at 7+ entry for our DS for top North London independent schools. How would people rank in terms of difficulty of entry: Habs, UCS, Highgate, Belmont (Mill Hill), Merchant Taylors? Any recent first hand experience?
We don't want DS to sit too many exams so are trying to decide to which to apply...

All through schools have a lot of advantages for everyone concerned. Continuity in education is a driver of achievement; entrance examinations absorb huge amounts of valuable teaching time; children lose out on learning during the adjustment phase to a new school a d peer group.

Does anyone have any tips for the first round at forest?

Sorry to disagree about feeder nurseries. We didn't even get a call or email back for the 3+, so I think that is the most exclusive of all. It's basically the backdoor, for those not required to take the test. If you don't get a letter back, don't worry, you will have your chance at the 7+, so don't give up! 7+ is the optimal entry point, at least in North London.

At our school, about a quarter come from the nursery, and the remainder come in from the test at 7+. There is also a fairly obvious skills gap between the kids who come in from the test, and those that were there from the nursery: the 7+ entrants are light years ahead.

I think in terms of ratio, it slightly easier to get in at 8+ than 7+, as usually there are fewer pupils sitting for 8+, and the most most bright top-performing kids and winter-borns in a pre-preps will USUALLY choose to sit 7+, and hence increase the competition level.

There is an increasing trend for parents to sit 7+8+, as they are too scared to prepare for 11/13+....

For 11+, I am not sure, but I would think it is the most difficult of all. The number of candidates versus entrants ratio is the worst, and the level of preparation is the highest. It requires at least 2 years of preparation beyond school learning levels.

Also at age 10 the self-consciousness of the kid will be higher, so they will share the stress and anxiety that us parents are having. I think that can be very traumatic on a kid, who should be getting pleasure from sports and music and feeling like a playground hero. Even for the 7+, our kid basically stopped playing with toys from all the prepping. I cannot imagine what the 11+ would do to the kids.

It is hard to generalise. We certainly saw it as a relief to get child 1 into Habs at 5 and she stayed there to 18. However she may not have passed at 11+ at that school and sat for 6 others too including NLCS where her sister was. her sister was at NLCS from 7+ and she sat for Habs at 11+ Neither sister got into the other's school at 11+ which was quite funny. Both were really happy at their respective schools though and are glad they were at different schools so it's all been very good indeed in the end although haveing 2 different sports days but their brothers' ones was not that easy and their father taught in a 4th school again so that was a lot of different school dates.

The boys were in the traditional prep school system which also has its plus points. At age 12 you can be one of the biggest boys with lots of responsibilty rather than a tiny age 12 thing with massive 18 year olds in yhour school and boys mature later than girls. Also the prep school can kindly direct the parent to the right next school and break it to them that their fairly low IQ child is not the bee's knees in terms of brains after all and could be very happy at [ name easy to get in school that does well for the intellectuall challenged child ]

You are right, Xenia, that traditional English prep schools provide masses of support and guidance to parents about their children. The collective experience of children in a good English prep is unbeatable.

Oh God! We have a new teacher at our state school; yesterday she gave DS level 6 books to read. When I asked her why when he's been reading level 11 books last year, I was told that she didn't have time to figure out reading levels yet. It's been only a month! So how do you survive in a system where supposedly good state schools just do not teach and private schools require 2 years ahead level? What do poor parents like us suppose to do?!

ScorpioMum - you have to take control of your DS’s reading yourself. There is no point battling the school unless you have a lot of parents and the PTA behind you.

ScorpioMum, this could also happen in some preprep schools, when new teachers are not properly trained or handed over.
If you are in state system and sitting 7+ this coming winter, you can just forget about the school work. Do it yourself. The teachers in state school generally have no idea of 7+ exams and requirements, and they obviously are not interested in preparing for your DS to those exams, either.

Yes and that was the same in the old days. My teacher mother taught by brother at home (despite him being in a private pre prep) for a 7+ exam. In fact he took it a year young and got in and like I am we both finished A levels at 17 although these days being a year young in school is quite rare and usually not allowed. I was 17 at university in England.

Xenia, sorry to hijack the thread for a question of personal curiosity, but what is your opinion of Grammar Schools in North London, for 11+? Did it enter into your evaluation with 5 kids to look after, and what decided you against them? After all, they are top of the league tables, I am thinking of HB, QEB, for example?

Apologies again, it is kind of related, to educational choices at secondary level at least, so future trajectories!

Agree with others. Waste of your energy to battle school. We had a similar situation. Actually easy books from school just meant that our son could whizz through them. We could then focus on reading suitable/useful books outside of the state school which would help for the 7+ exams. Easier and quicker any school work got done the better in the run up to the exams. You need to drive the agenda. It is not the schools responsibility or what they will be doing. Afraid reading, story writing, comprehension, Maths needs to come from you/him. Bond Books etc etc.

School will not help you unfortunately! It's all up to you! We found training for the test to be the most efficient use of time, not reading books. From sample tests and bond books.

That way, you are reading excerpts from sample tests in different genres, and really developing reading comprehension as opposed to reading. It also helps to walk through it with your kid. Title, picture, genre (fact, fiction, letter, poem, instructions), style (funny, scary, sad, action), the right questions to ask about what you are reading. Then, of equal importance, let your kid make mistakes in how they understand it. That way, they don't make the mistake again.

I agree that reading comprehension training is highly effective. Going through CGP type books really teaches children how to read closely for meaning.

HP, lots of parents find those good state grammars pretty good. I only went to private schools so was not particualrly keen to choose a state school and had nothing else that I prioritised quite as much as the children's schooling but lots of people in our position would take a totally different view and say why pay if you can get into a good grammar school.
NCLS private, had 45 girls into oxbridge in 2017 and Henrietta B about 29 but I don't know how many girls go to each school to compare what % that is. NLCS 85% AA and HB 73% AA - I may not be comparing exactly the same years but in essence I think the very academic private schools are slightly ahead of the state grammars and i think we wanted other parents who were able to afford fees, parents' choirs to sing Bach in (I sing a lot - although someone will now tell me the state grammars have those which might well be the case), nice buildings, lakes etc which not alls tate grammars have, and perhaps a bit of a nicer physical environment and potentially other children and teachers speaking more like we do.

(Many thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts, Xenia! Sorry again to digress from the main purpose of this thread!)

HoverParent, I think it is all relevant, 11+ will happen pretty soon. And thank you for your great advise, and CB2009 too, I think I will switch to Comprehension books from now on. What drives me crazy is that the kids spend 8 hours at school doing practically nothing and forgetting actually what they were taught over summer for example, then they come home and have to do another hour - hour and a half of school work. As HoverParent said, they no longer have time to play. It is very unfair and it's just wrong.

Xenia, your experience with applying to different schools is extraordinary. It sounds like a child should sit as many exams as he could bear as all schools seem to have different requirements!

@HoverParent I have a child at a good indie but we live not too far from HB. We aren't sitting her for it, despite the obvious financial and commuting time benefits. It's by repute a real hot house, she'd need tutoring and I think the wider benefits of her current school are important.

The old pre school common entrance system at 13+ is that you sat one exam only for all schools called the common entrance exam (and in the state system the one the 11+ for all schools which saved the child doing a lot of different exams. I have some children who like exams amazingly - one of my teenage sons last year said he preferred the weeks at school with exams than normal lessons. Also if you are just getting a chance to write a story, answer some questions, show off what you know it's not particularloy stressful especially if you know your parents don't mind at all whatever school you get into of the ones you are trying for.

However I am not the best person to ask about most of this as my sons applied to their school at 13+ about 7 years + ago so I will not be fully up to date and things have changed a bit. We preferred single sex schools. Those are less popular these days for some parents.

In London there are a lot of international parents for whom single sex education is anathema. Their preference for co ed has changed the relative market position of some schools and, along with the IB, helped them gain market share and push standards up. And then those schools become more attractive to the British.

In my experience the parents considering the super selectives like HB and QEB don't have a huge overlap with those sitting for the independents. Those sitting for independents are as league table obsessed and are looking for a more well rounded education and value the extra curricular/pastoral side. Those cramming for the grammars are a whole other set purely going after the highest grades. For what it's worth QEB and HB both have a reputation for being some serious hothouses and for culling those who don't make the cut.

Very insightful comments. Are there any specific views on UCS for 7+. Is it for boys with high ability or Could a high ability boy get bored there? I would love to hear your views and experiences.

I live a bit far from UCS to have considered it snd I don't know that much about it, but I know people who did very well there. I don't think a high ability boy would be bored at it at all. I assume it's a bit below schools like Westminster Under School and Colet Court (St Paul's) (although I think one of those two starts at 8 not 7 or it used to) but probably on a par with Habs boys at 7?