7+ Entrance North London

[ScorpioMum]

Hi all, we're looking at 7+ entry for our DS for top North London independent schools. How would people rank in terms of difficulty of entry: Habs, UCS, Highgate, Belmont (Mill Hill), Merchant Taylors? Any recent first hand experience?
We don't want DS to sit too many exams so are trying to decide to which to apply...

Why not kokeshi? Don’t you think it’s true?

Thanks for this thread we’re a few years away from 7+ but there is good info here

Well, it's possible English is not the poster's first language, but "bad apple" is the sort of phrase you normally use for describing corrupt police officers or fraudulent insurance salespeople. It's not the way I'd describe some harmless child who has committed no offense other than finding reading and writing more difficult than the average kid.

"Xenia, thank you for the advise but I am not sure how it solves the problem, the child can still fall in love with the 'wrong school'. It would be very interesting to hear about your 'journey'? Did you change schools a lot, sat 7+ or just 11+? Was it tough on the kids to change schools?"

My oldest got into Habs at 5 and was there to 18. her sister for some reason despite being a very advanced reader at age 4 (better than any of the other children - they kept bringing her books to read and each one she could read) didn't get in there at 5. She went to Kensington Prep and then at 7 to NLCS until 18. Both girls did as well as each other and bother are London lawyers. My older son was at MTS from 12 (13+ entry or whatever they call it from his prep school). My twins just left last year so I don't want to say their school but they went their brother's route - prep school to 12/13 and then the next school and they are at university now.

So we had a lot of experience with different schools. IT was certainly less stressful to get one into Habs at 5 as then although she had to get in at 11+ too with everyone else the decisions were taken really before. What I would say is that younger girl read about 2 years younger than her sister because she liked to sit down a lot and concentrate whereas her older sister liked to be moving all the time and yet they got almost the same exam results ultimately so it didn't really matter; ditto with the differences between my twins who ended up with almost the same exam results too.

As we are in outer London all the good private schools are good or at least have one thing people can like about them so it wasn't as if one was a hell hole and another had massive lakes and a child wanted the lakes.

How to make a child work though is never an easy issue - some just get their finger out and work when they are 15 (or never) and others are little mr compliant from age 5.

Oh yes, let's all stop being cynical. It might upset someone that the schooling system is unfair. Let's pretend it's not and feel better about it.

I didn’t even pick up on the bad apples comment. I assumed it was just reflecting the thinking of the school. Unfair as it is, it’s the way it goes.

Upon reflection, let me qualify the notion that the testing system is unfair. The test does make it fair in the sense that you cannot buy yourself a place, so it is a great equalizer.

On the day of the test, we saw one ridiculously famous TV celebrity whose kid did not make it past the test. Had there been no such thing as a test, it is fairly obvious that they could easily outspend us for a place. So for that, we are thankful.

Our criticism of the school system, having passed through it and earned first prize in it, is that it is a form of social apartheid. Especially in North London, the little bubble worlds of private selectives have never been a proper reflection of the community they are in. To ask a super-cynical question (notice the preface again, we are still allowed the freedom to be cynical), "Where are the ethnic minorities?" Let's not lie to ourselves about the social injustice that lies deeply embedded in this system.

We got through it because we learnt the game, many thanks to MumsNet for the collective wisdom of tips and tricks, but if someone thinks they can do it without prepping for it, they will soon realize it is a rigged game.

Especially in North London, the little bubble worlds of private selectives have never been a proper reflection of the community they are in."

I agree that the school populations do not reflect the communities they are in, but who expects them to?. At the very least, I believe everyone understands that private schools select on income.

To ask a super-cynical question (notice the preface again, we are still allowed the freedom to be cynical), "Where are the ethnic minorities?"

What do you consider an ethnic minority? My DCs' schools are considered very selective and have had plenty of non-white children and children with non-British parents.

if someone thinks they can do it without prepping for it, they will soon realize it is a rigged game.

I agree that it's a game but I don't agree that it's rigged, at least for the reason that you're giving. Most games more complex than flipping a coin reward preparation and effort in preparation. Or is your problem that the players in the game are actually the parents, not the children?

Xenia, 5 kids through the private school system! WOW!

Hover, I don't know what North London school you use but my ons in a private school in in N London was the ONLY white boy in his class about 3 years ago. I thought it was the state shcools around here which are segregated and the fee paying schools mixed actually. I fyou go into my local area the local C of E primary school is almost all white and the closet state primary to my house has lots of little girls in head coverings aged 6. Even 20 years ago my daughter at Habs was the only one of 2 children in her class or year who had 4 English born grandparents!

HoverParent, thank you for your great advise and comments. I think we all agree that exams - results game got completely out of hand in London. Most of my friends who live in Switzerland or France look at me strangely when I share with them the 7+ exam fears.

OK, fine. To be optimistic, ethnic diversity is rising over the decades, that much is true, and maybe having North London as a benchmark is too much to ask, it is after all the most diverse place in the world. And yes, the kids who do pass the test are slightly brighter than the rest, that is true as well. Everybody happy now?

Our local north london state primary was 90% white. My son's preprep was maybe 40% white.

Yes, very happy. I think the entrance tests are pretty fair. As people say above even if you are rich and famous on the whole you cannot buy a place at the leading academic day schools and also if you aren't up to it then you wouldn't be happy there anyway. There will always be some element of luck with exams however. it is not a prefect system but at least in N London you have lots of different good private schools whereas in some towns there may just be one.

Also don't worry too much about it. My child with the best exam results of all of them including me did his best at GCSE and then A level best of all rather than aged 7. My siblings went to Oxbridge and the one who read medicine said they only started hard work at school at age 15 when they decided that was the goal. Suddenly then their school work became a lot better.

On the day of the test, we saw one ridiculously famous TV celebrity whose kid did not make it past the test.

How do you know they didn't make it past the test? How do you know they didn't get a place and decline it?

(because his kid is still at the prep school that he was trying to leave...)

Dear all, thank you so much for the advise, it has been invaluable!
The amazing thing is that now once I've calmed done a bit I am almost beginning to enjoy it!! I spend a lot more time with my kid, I cancelled all my business trips for the next 3 months and I can see some progress. It is really amazing to see the results so quickly! And we started to talk a lot more about his school, his friends, international news even...

That sounds lovely. It is never the end of the world if they don't get into the school you want either and tends to work out fine in the end particularly as these children have engaged and interested parents.

Has anyone had any experience with Bancroft?

@Scorpiomum - Is that what you're trying? They have sample papers on the website that you could look at.

We are looking at co-eds and we love North London. Probably can't have both.

Any thoughts on Bedford Modern?

I do think 7+ has become an extraordinarily difficult proposition these days as most schools have created their own pre-preps and the spaces just aren't there anymore. There are a few pre-preps that finish at 7 and they used to move onto the best schools, but that's much rarer now. It's an entry point I'd avoid if at all possible.

Are you saying that 11+ entry is easier?

I assumed that the older the DC, the more difficult it is to get into a good school? Also how do you catch up with the top academic schools standards by 11+ if you attend a bog standard state school?

@FanDabbyFloozy

I totally agree about pre-preps. We started one few years ago in the hope that it will finish at 7 and will act as a feeder to the best but guess what - they created their own year 4, year 5 classes afterwards!!
But I do have a different view on the entry point - I would rather get done early on at 4+ or 7+. The more one delays (like 8+ or 11+), the harder it gets. Exams at whatever level will always be stressful for parents, so the sooner the easier!!