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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

7+ Entrance North London

180 replies

ScorpioMum · 22/09/2018 21:13

Hi all, we're looking at 7+ entry for our DS for top North London independent schools. How would people rank in terms of difficulty of entry: Habs, UCS, Highgate, Belmont (Mill Hill), Merchant Taylors? Any recent first hand experience?
We don't want DS to sit too many exams so are trying to decide to which to apply...

OP posts:

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pretendingtowork1 · 28/09/2018 14:42

Loads...

Manor Lodge.
Edge Grove.
Radlett prep
Hendon prep.
Devonshire house.
Lyndhurst
Trevor roberts
Hereward house

Plus the less competitive through schools like Aldenham and Northbridge house

Original poster

ScorpioMum · 30/09/2018 19:44

My son is very bright but he often refuses to cooperate. How do you motive a 6 year old to do tests rather than play? Anybody with a similar problem/experience?

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moonbells · 30/09/2018 20:21

MT School doesn't have 7+. MT Prep does, and now there is a CE-free route through from the prep to the senior school if the teachers think that it's a suitable school for them. For others, they still do CE preparation.

MTP used to be Northwood Prep until it joined the MT Educational Trust 3y ago.

If you're counting the other Northwood schools in your list, there's St Martin's and St John's. SJ is also MT Educational Trust but doesn't have the CE exemption.

Kyanspie · 01/10/2018 08:16

Scorpio, I have no answers but would also be interested to hear! My daughter can do all the bond papers when I'm sitting over her but takes much persuading to sit down for even 10 minutes. And writing a story of even half a page is an effort for both of us.

Does this just mean that despite being very able she just isn't ready for these schools?

Original poster

ScorpioMum · 01/10/2018 10:34

Kyanspie, I think one solution is to get a tutor. My son is not happy to do homework with me but happily does what's required of him with a tutor. The other indication is the performance at school. My biggest worry is the performance on the exam day. How do you motive a 6yo?

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skal · 01/10/2018 10:41

Kyanspie, have you visited the schools with your LO? Sometimes, that can really help the kids in giving a perspective.

Tutors are always an option but we have tried best of the best tutors in North London and their approach didn't work for us. It really tends to kill the child's own creativity. So finding an appropriate tutor who is really in love with the profession may be a good idea but it proved to be quite a struggle for us.

NayDS · 01/10/2018 12:07

Moonbell, do you know if Merchant Taylor’s prep takes a new class at 7+ or if it has a smaller intake based on children who leave the school after year 2?

Kyanspie · 01/10/2018 12:29

Thank you so much everyone for telling. Yes, we have visited the schools but she seems rather non plussed about it all - perhaps a good thing as less pressure!

Does anyone know whether performing very well in maths and reasoning etc, and ok in the comprehension but average or below average (writing say only half a page) in the story writing would mean it's not even worth trying for a place? Do the schools select some who are clearly excelling in a few papers but not so much in the others, or are they all looking only for excellent all rounders?

Original poster

ScorpioMum · 01/10/2018 14:40

Kyanspie, are you doing 6 -7y Bond papers or 7 - 8y ? What do you think we should be aiming for?

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Kyanspie · 01/10/2018 15:21

7-8 in maths and reasoning and flying through. Loves it.

But 6-7 in English is a stretch - she can read the text and answer the questions easily out loud if pushed, but just refuses to write a proper full sentence in answer. One word answers is all I can get her to do.

I'm starting to think we should look at a good unselective prep and try again at 11. So frustrating as I know she can do it, just bloody minded she doesn't want to.

I'm so torn between telling her she needs to if she wants to go to these schools, and not wanting to put crazy pressure on a 6 year old. I've just said the schools are testing to see which form she will be in if she goes there, maybe I should be a bit more direct that they are selecting only the best pupils to help focus her a bit? Too pushy?

Wiifitmama · 01/10/2018 15:31

I just thought you all might like a tutor's perspective on this? I tutor regularly for 7+ schools in London (I am not looking for new students!)

In my experience, I find that the children who really understand the process honestly become more engaged. So, either they are at a school that does not go beyond year 2 and must move and understand that these exams will decide where they end up. Or students who have visited the schools and really want to to to them and know that their performance on these exams help decide that. The students who have refused to engage are often ones at schools they do not want to leave (nor do they have to) and therefore can see no reason to work hard for the exams.

Yes, there is a fine line between putting pressure on a 6 year old and involving them in the process. And only a parent can know for sure how much pressure is appropriate. However, I would encourage some transparency so that children do understand what is happening.

In life in general, do any of us work without reward? We work for pay, or fulfilment in our career or career progression, or if we are at home we work for our families because we love and care for them. I think children need to have a reason to put in the work for these exams. If they understand the reason, they are more likely to engage.

This is just my opinion of course!

skal · 01/10/2018 15:35

We are in the same boat where DS doesn't like doing comprehension and story writing. But over past 1 month, we have seen a massive improvement in story writing and that's been down to writing one story everyday. But I think it's also got to do with the fact that we are doing a lot of cricket too to keep our and his sanity in place. [Sports are a big stress buster for us!] So unless your DD is happy with such a commitment, trying later may be a better idea when they are a bit more mature.

Original poster

ScorpioMum · 01/10/2018 15:43

Wiifitmama, I agree entirely but what happens if your child falls in love with a school and then fails the exam? How do you explain to a 6 yo that he is a failure? Because no matter what ones says he will be aware that he was not good enough? And how would he feel going back to his old school?
Kyanspie, we are also considering a prep as a back up. I think it is only wise.

OP posts:

skal · 01/10/2018 16:09

Scorpiomum - it is a very good question. And something I dread too with each passing day. For now, I am thinking that I will look into DS' eyes and tell him that "I decided" that it wasn't the good choice for him this year as it would have meant a lot more work in the new school and I would really like him to enjoy the lower school for another year where he's already fully settled.

That said, I can only hope this will work!

Xenia · 01/10/2018 17:16

You just show them 3 or 4 lovely schools and don't even let them know you prefer the hardest to get into one so they have no idea and instead they see the nice things about all of them and then it doesn't matter if they don't get into the first choice. Perhaps don't even let them know which is your own first choice school.
Also they all develop at different stages. We got ours into the most academic schools we could at 5 and took it from there.

Kyanspie · 01/10/2018 17:53

Thank you Xenia, a much needed voice of calm!

Original poster

ScorpioMum · 01/10/2018 21:50

Xenia, thank you for the advise but I am not sure how it solves the problem, the child can still fall in love with the 'wrong school'. It would be very interesting to hear about your 'journey'? Did you change schools a lot, sat 7+ or just 11+? Was it tough on the kids to change schools?

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HoverParent · 02/10/2018 09:59

Don't worry, you'll be fine. As long as you practise, you're in. None of the kids are actually that bright. They're just not dumb.

To be cynical, all the test does, is screen out bad apples. So, it exposes the kids with dyslexia and dyspraxia, and they get filtered out.

The kids that are left, are the kids that listen well, do what they're told, and take their work seriously.

Of the kids that I know who took the test, all of them made it, except one kid that had ADHD. None of them were exceptionally bright. Some of them I wouldn't have taken, if I ran a school.

So the only thing that matters is, are you trained or untrained! Nothing else. And if you are untrained, it probably comes down to being untrainable or not taking the test seriously, both of which are mortal sins from the perspective of schools that care about league table rankings.

One trick to get your kid to love test taking, is positive reinforcement. However badly they do, congratulate them for going through it, and reward them for it. Make them have an appetite for it. Don't focus on the mistakes, focus on rewarding them for the process. Then they can't wait for the next time.

independentschoolsshow · 02/10/2018 10:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Original poster

ScorpioMum · 02/10/2018 12:03

Hoverparent, thank you so much! I think the main problem now is that I am so worked up that the child can sense it. I will try to keep calm from now on! Cheers!

OP posts:

HoverParent · 02/10/2018 15:12

Worst year of your life! We are still recovering from the trauma! Reliving it with others is therapy!

Original poster

ScorpioMum · 02/10/2018 15:27

Sure is, that you!

OP posts:

pretendingtowork1 · 02/10/2018 16:53

Find something good about every school when you show them round:

wouldn't it be great if you went to school A, your cousin Fred goes there
look at the amazing playground school B has
your friend from the year above goes to school C, you could have playdates with him

etc etc

then very low key announce that you've talked to all the schools and you and the schools agree that the best one for him is school B and won't it be exciting for to start there. keep it light and breezy.

moonbells · 02/10/2018 21:17

NayDS I believe it's just to replace Y2 leavers.

Kokeshi123 · 03/10/2018 07:54

To be cynical, all the test does, is screen out bad apples. So, it exposes the kids with dyslexia and dyspraxia, and they get filtered out.

Wow.

I am really really not a sensitive special snowflake, and even I can't quite believe that someone would actually post something like this.

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