Sending a child home for wetting or soiling.

[onmykneesandsinking22]

Hi! My ds (5 years old) has an ongoing problem with toileting. Been seen by an OT, nurse, doctor but no real advice so there's not a diagnosed "condition" but he just goes through phases of wetting and soiling daily. He did this at the start of Reception but settled down after half a term, had a two week wobble mid year but has been fine. Until a teacher apparently shouted at the group that my ds was in telling them that asking to go to the toilet was "ridiculous" so he wet himself instead. This seems to have triggered a downward spiral and he's now wetting and soiling daily again. Today he got sent home from school for soiling then wetting. Dp collected him but I'm just wondering if they can keep sending him home for this? I'm panicking really as dp can accommodate this to a certain extent but I really really can't just take off from work, as a one off maybe but not regularly. So, where do I stand? Can they insist that he goes home every time he wets or soils? Thanks!

We've got a doctor's appointment to find that out. We've been here before and no sign of constipation but I feel we need to get it checked out for each new episode.

Some pretty unhelpful responses further up sorry to see.

Yes it is a SEND issue and the school should be able to deal with it properly. I have a 4 year old with similar issues mostly wet occasionally runny poo. She is on a good streak at the mo having been very motivated by a sticker chart before half term and on going constant attention on damp pants. She hasn't been at all worried about it until recently I think we downplayed it too much.

She can easily change herself if wee but generally a teacher has to prompt her. She would be completely unable to wipe up a significant poo issue in a nappy or in pants.

Teachers are very supportive here, it is only on the bad side of normal if you see what I mean.
There is a lad I know coming to the end of y1 with similar issues- more to do with poo and again school are very helpful

Encopresis is the term - leaking faeces and/or urine due to impaction. It definitely needs to be ruled out.

Is he forgetting to ask? Is he getting to the point that he's having so much fun or is busy with whatever task and forgets to ask and then all of a sudden needs a wee/poo.

If so, can you buy a cheap kids sports watch that beeps every 2(?) hours to 'remind' him he needs to go?

Does his class teacher remind the kids to go to the loo, or are they expected to ask? Maybe ask the teacher to remind him frequently.

The Eric website is really good for this sort of thing. It has lots of advice on there, and also info regarding schools responsibilities to children with continence issues:
ERIC

Teachers are not there to clean up the mess if children can’t or won’t use the toilet correctly.
I appreciate your child has a as yet undiagnosed condition (it sounds more psychological than anything) but you can’t expect teaching staff to be attending to him on a daily basis when he wets or messes himself.

No. It is actually illegal for the school not to make a care plan and have arrangements for changing the child at school. It’s under the provisions of the Children and Families Act. It’s a medical condition and negative attitudes don’t help.

Loving the idea of a beeping watch reminder.
I have sent a long rambling email to the Eric helpline so I'm hoping for some good advice from there.

My advice would be to talk to the school and ask them op.

It is hard to get proper advice on here as while some understand, others seem to get a bit hysterical about a child who occasionally has accidents and a judgemental tone creeps in. I was little in the 70s and I definitely remember classmates having accidents and teachers sorting them out. People talk about it as though it's a problem which first arose about 10 years ago!

The school may be willing to deal with a wet/soiled child as long as you supply plastic gloves, wipes, new pants and trousers and a plastic bag. Or not. It was my understanding that they are required to look after a child who has had an accident but I am not clear on the law and I do know that medical care and equal rights is a weird grey area in some aspects.

Don't feel embarrassed, your son is not the first and won't be the last.

This common in young children and the school should be supporting you and your child much better. As a pp said a care plan needs to be agreed between you and the school so your son gets the bit of additional help he needs to allow him the same opportunities as his classmates. Frequent wetting and soiling at 5 suggests an underlying medical condition and the school is legally required to make adjustments for and support what his care needs are. Ring the ERIC Helpline it looks at their school info on their website - they will be able to give you chapter and verse of how your school needs to step up - sending him home is discriminatory and very likely illegal.

The school absolutely should not be sending him home because of soiling. Get a referral to your school nurse to support you in meeting with the school. Direct the school to this www.eric.org.uk/right-to-go

@onmykneesandsinking22 just seen you have emailed ERIC Helpline. You will get a much quicker /immediate response if you ring - 10am -2pm -Monday -Thursday. Good luck.

Ah, PPs have beaten me to it.... recommending ERIC. it sounds to me as though your son does have a medical isdue, whether diagnosed or not. And the school is not supporting him as they should be.

Keep pressing for further investigations, and join the ERIC forum on HealthUnlocked (find this via ERIC website). You will get great advice from parents of children with similar issues. Good luck.

ERIC are great - they really do know their stuff.

School are taking the piss (sorry) calling you in to change them and ignore the intolerant ill-informed arses at the start of the thread. He has a medical condition (I'd put money on it being constipation to be honest) and school are not allowed to discriminate or exclude based on that medical condition.

With the timing of the recent relapse, coupled with the weather I'd be thinking he's starting to constipate up to be honest - DD2 does exactly the same pattern - doesn't drink enough in the heat, blocks up a bit, starts to piddle intermittently from the pressure on the bladder and then the poo leaks start a few days later.

We have as part of DD2's provision mapping her continence issues noted on there and how they'll be handled (we're in a similar situation complicated by some other needs). Like you we go through periods of things going really really well (although we bust our arses off with timed toilet sits and laxatives at home to make sure she goes before and after school so any problems at school get limited to skid marking as a general rule) and then it'll all go completely to pot for a couple of weeks at random (toward the end of a term is prime time for it to go to shit to be honest).

We actually moved school choices at the very last minute and a big part of the reason was that it was obvious DD2's continence problems weren't going to be fully resolved by school start (poor kid getting hospitalised and back into nappies with pneumonia right at the end of the year didn't help that at all really) and I didn't trust the first choice of school to handle it at all professionally or compassionately to be honest. From talking to the local continence nurse I definitely made the right judgement call in that department apparently.

We keep spare clothes, wipes, nappy sacks in school for them to use (although they never do - just use the school supply generally).

Our school changes the child and day carries on. My ds used to do it about once a term in reception.

And I know other kids do it too as school asks for spare trousers etc

Get a copy of the right to go from the Eric website- schools can't make you come in or send him home
Get back to the gp to check if he is constipated
Get in touch with the school nurse team for advice on managing this
Check your child is drinking 6-8 drinks over the day (ideally water avoid dark drinks )
You want your child to be trying on the toilet every 2-3 hours but not much more than this or the bladder won't get used to being full and will need to frequently empty

Try for a poo twenty minutes after a meal- sit up straight, get a stool so knees are higher than hips when sat on the loo, blow bubbles or balloons to help put pressure on the bowel

Everyone's beaten me to it with the Eric recommendation

We had this issue with my daughter (now 11 and fine). As soon as she moved off breast milk she had poo issues, and potty training exacerbated it. She would hold it in for a week then leaking and sometimes major soiling/wee event.

We'd keep spare jogging bottoms and knickers at school, who were v good about it.

But what fixed it in the end was:

• no bread (made it worse)
• daily humzinger fruit stick
• daily paediatric movicol
• never making a fuss about it
• letting her take her time on the loo and letting her use the iPad in there (to make the loo something that appealed rather than to be avoided)

It still took at least 2 years to fix though. Definitely fine by end of year 1. And she'll still block the loo occasionally after not going for a couple of days so I just think she will always be one of those people with loo issues unfortunately.

Good luck and chin up. You will get there.

It maybe a staffing issue. If there is no TA the teacher cannot leave the class u supervised to change a child. If the child cannot deal with accidents himself then what else can they do other than phone home?

Also in my day teachers could not be compelled to change children if they opted not to. Has that changed?

Do they have proper toilet policy?
My ds's school allows rec/ks1 children goes to toilet anytime they want.
In ks2, little bit more strict, but use card system, that there are two cards, one for girl and one for boy. Still, as long as you have card to take, no restrictions. My ds need to go to the toilet at lot more than others, due to his conditions. Never had any problems, even with loose stool/diarrhea as long as it wasn't bug related.

We let DD2 use the tablet on the loo for ages - multi-tasked with Teach Your Monster to Read... figured at least she'd end up literate or continent! (Top of the class reading now at end of reception... lower end of the class with pooing in the right place)

(I've got a bit of a gallows sense of humour about it now - hopefully it doesn't come across too badly)

We're cracking it - but it's a long slow slog.

The school should have an intimate care policy - ask to see it.

I have a lot of sympathy - I have been there. My child had spares in school and mainly had to change himself. We had a teacher who used to literally hand a bag in front of everyone to us. It was miserable.

I would book an appointment to talk to the SENCO asap

Schools absolutely cannot send him home, or demand parents come in to change him. Lots do, but they should not be, they should have provision to sort it out.

If nothing else, it builds very bad linkages for the child if they have an 'accident' and get to go home.