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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Advice Needed for Reception refusal appeal

59 replies

AppleCat78 · 09/05/2018 12:31

Hello. Hoping for some realistic advise on appealing refusal into our first pick school for DD who is due to start reception in Sept. We’re located in Wiltshire. Basically our daughter is settled with the worlds best childminder, who is only able to accommodate the school run for our first pick. We didn’t get an offer, and where she was originally 3rd on the waitlist, she’s now dropped to 4th.

We’re a military family, and have worked really hard to create a stable environment for DD, and the support we get from our childminder is the only thing that keeps me going as a working mom when hubby gets deployed. We did try to find care that accommodated the other school that is truthfully closer to where we live when we first moved here, but there was zero options that worked available. The school we prefer is not that far away as the town we live in is small.

Since applying, we’ve also found out we’re expecting with #2 due early July. We have already arranged for our childminder to take #2 when I go back to work in Feb when baby is only 7 months old. We cannot lose our childcare as this completely screws our family over. I cannot give up the place for #2 and feel sick at having to find a new setting for DD, removing her from her new sibling and an environment she knows, trusts, and is settled in. I don’t pick up until 6pm and having to pick up two children at two different settings means we won’t get home until 6:30/6:45 at night meaning our already limited time together as a family on week nights is significantly reduced as once we get in it’ll need to be straight into bedtime routine for DD - no bonding time as family, and no bonding time for siblings. Not to mention the stress that would be having to drop off at two locations. We already drop off for 7:30am and would have to leave even earlier. This whole things has made me absolutely sick and on the verge of tears all the time.

Advice needed - what are my honest chances of success based in the above? Or how would I be able to determine if a mistake had been made? The walk to school would be via a path vs road so not sure distance, not that it actually matters as the childminder does the school run.

OP posts:

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Original poster

AppleCat78 · 09/05/2018 12:34

Quick note - we bought our house in this area with the goal of creating stability for our children, including finding a long term childminder...

OP posts:

blinkowl · 09/05/2018 12:37

There is zero chance of you getting a school place based on a childminder. It's simply not the responsibility of the school what happens outside of school hours and how you manage your childcare.

You haven't even mentioned what the schools are like - which school do you think is best for your child?

If they have made a mistake on route then you can appeal that. But from your house not the CMs.

blinkowl · 09/05/2018 12:39

If you're set on that school, another option would be to move nearer to bump you up the list. The waiting list, if it's a standard state school, will be on distance not time spent waiting.

randomsabreuse · 09/05/2018 12:40

Do military families get social need/pupil premium? Or is it just when moving?

WeaselsRising · 09/05/2018 12:41

Did you say you were military on your application? I'm sure you are supposed to get priority but I can't remember what the terms are.

blinkowl · 09/05/2018 12:41

once we get in it’ll need to be straight into bedtime routine for DD - no bonding time as family, and no bonding time for siblings. Not to mention the stress that would be having to drop off at two locations.

But none of this is the responsibility of the school.

You can chose to have a different job. Or you could choose to be at home - live in a smaller house, be skint. You may not want to, for many valid reasons, but the reality is that it is your choices that can change this situation, nothing to do with the school.

myrtleWilson · 09/05/2018 12:43

Things to check re process - were you allocated into the right admission criteria-could a mistake have been made. If you were allocated correctly then do you know the last admitted distance (assuming distance as tiebreaker) how does that compare to your distance from school?

WeaselsRising · 09/05/2018 12:49

From Gov.uk

Children eligible for pupil premium or service premium
1.39A Admission authorities may give priority in their oversubscription criteria to children eligible for the early years pupil premium31, the pupil premium32 and also children eligible for the service premium33. Admission authorities should
clearly define in the arrangements the categories of eligible premium recipients to be prioritised.

Original poster

AppleCat78 · 09/05/2018 12:49

Selling our house to move closer to the school isn’t an option. The school we want has better ofstead reports and my first pick anyway, but the school given has been given good reviews by parents I’ve spoken to who’s children go there, and is apparently especially good for younger grades. This makes them close to even in regards to education my daughter would receive. Good childcare is SO hard to find, and SO important to the we support needed as a working family with one in the military! My understanding is the military premium only comes into effect if it’s due to a new posting. I’m so ANGRY at the stress and disruption this is causing to my family!!

OP posts:

Original poster

AppleCat78 · 09/05/2018 12:51

How do I find this out? Will the council provide this?

OP posts:

Original poster

AppleCat78 · 09/05/2018 12:54

You’re right. I should stop working and paying taxes, which helps fund public education so I can move into a council house and claim benefits - but hey, might get the school I want....

OP posts:

myrtleWilson · 09/05/2018 13:04

AppleCat - your last post was unnecessary -posters are telling you how ICS appeals work. That despite the very best sympathy extended to you as family appeal panels have little room for manoeuvre.

titchy · 09/05/2018 13:05

You’re right. I should stop working and paying taxes

That's not a helpful attitude.....

Your local authority should give you the reason you were refused your first choice - check with them the category you were placed in and that they have your correct address if presumably you were refused on distance. if they did and this is an infant class size appeal (again lea should confirm this - if class sizes are 30 then it will be), you stand very little chance of a successful appeal.

Childcare, family bonding are irrelevant. Most working parents would like more time bonding - that's life.

the lea also has to offer you a place somewhere which is what your taxes go on If it's over 2 miles by footpath they also have to provide free transport for your child.

mshoney · 09/05/2018 13:11

If it's an infant class size appeal - if the admission number is 30 then you have no chance I'm afraid unless admissions have made an error.

If I were you I'd be looking at other childcare providers that pick up at the school offered. It sounds like a good school. Yes your dd May be settled with her current childminder but kids are more resilient than we sometimes give them credit and can settle quickly into new surroundings and routine.

NotAnotherJaffaCake · 09/05/2018 13:11

You're coming across as a bit of a special snowflake, TBH. Nothing about your situation is particularly unusual and children in different locations is just a fact of modern life. Not getting your preferred school is a risk you take when you apply out of catchment.

SD1978 · 09/05/2018 13:12

I understand why you’re frustrated, but sadly don’t think the childminder aspect is an appeallable issue. Neither is your husband potentially having deployments. Is he based where you are at the moment? Many people work with husbands who are away for work. Or no husbands at all, so unless you can get points for that, the schools can’t take it into consideration. Can you get recommendations of different child minders, even from your current one? You probably need to accept that if you want the kids together, you will need to look at other options. Martyring yourself to have the youngest there but the older elsewhere seems a bit silly. Yes it’s frustrating and sad you’ll need to find someone else, but you’ll have your maternity leave, almost 8 months to be able to take your daughter to school, and find s new childminder. You could maybe contact them and ask why you’ve dropped though.

4GreenApples · 09/05/2018 13:30

It’s a rubbish situation to be in.

But no matter how sympathetic the appeals board are, they’re not going to be able to take the childminder into account. Especially not if you’re up against infant class size legislation (no more than 30 kids in an infant class).
If you’re up against infant class size legislation, the only way to win an appeal is if you can prove that the council made a mistake processing your application which cost you a space at the school.

The school admissions people at your local council should be able to tell you why you didn’t get a place e.g. if it’s distance, what distance have they used? Is it correct?

If it’s not falling under infant class size legislation (e.g. if published admissions numbers are 25 instead of 30), then you might have more chance at appeal, but you would need have a convincing argument based around the school itself, not around your childcare arrangements.

blinkowl · 09/05/2018 13:36

I should stop working and paying taxes, which helps fund public education so I can move into a council house and claim benefits

What? My point is, your home set-up is your responsibility, not the school's. I don't work full time. There are options other than being on benefits you know!

I work part time in a low paid job. I could commute for a high paid job in the city but I choose not to, so I am there when the kids come home.

I'm NOT saying everyone should do this! But the point is, it's your family's choice how to manage your home life. We've never been abroad with the kids - haven't been able to afford to. We run one car and when it broke last year we had to wait months to be able to afford to get it on the road again. I can't afford haircuts or new clothes.

You might not want to live like this and so you make other choices which is absolutely fine, it's your choice - but it IS a choice. But it's not the school's responsibility in the slightest.

ellsbells2 · 09/05/2018 13:43

I understand your frustration, but the chances of you winning an appeal are pretty much zero.

If you read up on Infant class size appeals you will see the very limited grounds on which they can be successful.

Your childcare issues will not be taken into consideration.

ellsbells2 · 09/05/2018 13:47

Also, if this is a primary school (as opposed to an Infants that is just year R-2), then if you remain on the waiting list and are allocated a place at school 1, it is possible that your second child may not secure a place when the time comes as sometimes sibling priority only applies to catchment children.

What intake is it? You are 4th on the waiting list, what size intake is it? There can be quite a lot of movement between now and September.

tethersend · 09/05/2018 14:05

How old is your DD? Is keeping her at nursery and on the waiting list until the term after she turns 5 an option? You can defer her allocated place until then.

Original poster

AppleCat78 · 09/05/2018 14:21

DD is 4, but turns 5 in October. Intake is 60. I did contact the LA to find out if any spots had been declined by the 2nd May response deadline, but so far no such luck. I did look up the PAN history, and 2016 saw the school take 89 students when PAN was 60. Contacting the school to try and find out more as to the circumstances behind it.

OP posts:

peodar · 09/05/2018 14:27

That will have been a planned bulge class. All schools round here have to take turns and the kids are usually housed in portakabins. No grounds for appeal at all

CatMuffin · 09/05/2018 14:27

I suppose they can't prioritise based on childcare requirements as otherwise everyone would get a child minder near the best school in the area.

CatMuffin · 09/05/2018 14:29

Maybe the younger siblings of the bulge class have made it harder to get in?

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