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What's reasonable to ask?

90 replies

RubiaPTA · 04/05/2018 22:10

My kid starts reception in September and I've been asked to write what provisions I think would be needed for him before I meet with them. I know what for the areas he's behind in or needs help in. But I don't know what to put for the areas he's ahead in. He's beyond what they teach in the core subjects and could easily go straight in to an older school so I don't know what to ask of them in that respect. But I need to ask for it as he is SM so can't for himself. I think I've worded this terribly but can anyone advise or been through it before

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
LIZS · 08/05/2018 08:02

Your hv can refer for hearing screening (did he have one at birth?), likewise sight is checked routinely when they start school.

RubiaPTA · 08/05/2018 12:34

He doesn't have a hv

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MyOtherProfile · 08/05/2018 12:46

That's fine just ask the GP.

LIZS · 08/05/2018 13:13

He/you will have an allocated health visitor if you are in England, whether you choose to activitely use them or not. It might be useful to make contact to ask them to expedite support and if there are any groups for parents and children in your situation.

RubiaPTA · 08/05/2018 13:17

No we opted out after something happened a few years back. Hvs are completely optional

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user789653241 · 08/05/2018 13:26

OP, you sound very unhappy about a lot of things. NHS, Hospital, doctors, HV, nursery. I know it's hard, but for the sake of your child, it makes a lot of difference if you try to be patient.
As a parents of child with needs, there are a lot of times that we have to fight for them. And professional people seems very unreasonable. But try to see it in a positive ways helped me a lot.
Your ds will need a lot of help. You really should opt in, for anything that might help him in the long run.

LIZS · 08/05/2018 13:27

Yes they are optional but they can be a useful resource if you have children who need support, even if just to signpost.

user789653241 · 08/05/2018 13:45

I really find it sad your ds hates preschool. Do you think it's going to be better when he starts school? School is more of rules and following instructions. It may not suit some children. But if you wish he would stay in school, your ds needs to learn to cope with school environment. I really think your ds's first priority is not academic stuff at school, which can be easily catered for him at home.

LIZS · 08/05/2018 13:57

At this stage I think it is important to be positive, for your own and ds sake. This is an opportunity to get him support through the school and get others onside. For this exercise think about what engages him, what visual prompts and support with his sight might he need, in what situations his sm appears and any triggers, his allergies , what to avoid and how to handle reactions. You can mention that you have observed certain academic aptitudes and feel that his issues may mask them to others, but that may be something you would like to investigate in future.

KoshaMangsho · 08/05/2018 14:10

I think you need to see school as more than a source of education. Your son is bright but there are things he can’t do that he will need to do later in life that are more important than long division. So I would focus on how school can help him with getting along with his peers, what they can do to help him integrate, learning to play and get along with others, finding ways to communicate his needs.
Can he dress and undress himself? Can he sit still and listen to a story? Can he manage lunch time? Can he follow instructions even when he doesn’t want to?
As you have identified he has some areas he struggles like handwriting. What will they be able to do to help you in this regard with fine motor skills? How are his scissor and gluing skills?
If the referrals haven’t come through you need to call and push and push again and again. I have a couple of friends who have kids with SM and between their GPs and local services they have managed to access some help.
Finally, it’s wonderful that he is bright but I have a bright but NT child who was shy and we spent all of reception working on his social skills. He too could free read by Reception but we worked on making sure he understood the test, he understood nuances and was able to apply the language he was reading in his work.

user789653241 · 08/05/2018 14:35

Have you posted thread under different name? If so, I agree, you should pay to get diagnosis/report of his needs privately if your area isn't helping under NHS. Knowing what is the problem/ how to cater for him etc would really help his school how they can help him, if you have no assessment done by nhs.

RubiaPTA · 08/05/2018 15:19

I have all of the things I use /do for his additional needs down. Like sign, cards, magnifier sheet, music, written instructions, ect, ect. But it is important to get the other side down

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user789653241 · 08/05/2018 17:06

Op, problem is bigger than that, I think. You can be there for him 1-1, but teacher can't. Unless your ds gets 1-1 help assigned to him, he will be one of 30 children at school. School will try to cater for his needs, but it will mainly be his additional needs, before his academic needs I assume.

youarenotkiddingme · 08/05/2018 17:28

I think you need to meet school and have a meeting. Talk them through the challenges and areas he needs support and how you help and support him. Agree ways you work with school for this to continue.

Tell them about your thoughts re academics and show them what he does. Ask about online learning in school and about small group interventions to plug any gaps.

Ask them about applying for top up funding or an EHCP and getting formal assessment done.

PatriciaHolm · 08/05/2018 18:32

I would imagine that school would be very interested in pushing for an EHCP, as that is realistically the only way they will get any extra funding to support him. And it sounds as if he will need significant support.

RainbowGlitterFairy · 08/05/2018 19:44

If he's a SM please tell the school as much as you can about how ahead he is as for example his reading will be hard to assess if he can't read out loud to anyone. Also if he enjoys maths and reading for fun that will be useful to know so they can use it to build up a relationship. If you don't know what support he needs in certain areas you can just say he will need support with... and let the school tell you what support they think they might be able to offer.

Are they looking at employing a 1:1? If so it may be possible for the 1:1 to work to an individual programme during parts of the day, a lot of reception work is done in small groups so for example I take my 1:1 to work on maths and phonics separately while the rest of the class are working in their groups and we work with the class the rest of the day.

RubiaPTA · 08/05/2018 19:55

I am going to meet with them and yeah I've just started the EHCP process. I'm hoping that goes easily. Honestly even I underestimate his ability sometimes so I might see what I can do in terms of assessment. He's told me since he was little that he wanted to be a theoretical physicist ... Or iron man. I don't what him to end up losing interest in schoolbecause hes not learning

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user789653241 · 08/05/2018 20:16

You can use these for maths.

www.ncetm.org.uk/resources/46689

Snowysky20009 · 09/05/2018 00:51

OP you talk at length about his academic side but how is he emotionally and socially?
How does he interact with other children? Can he listen? Take turns? Sit quietly? Follow instructions? Make friends? Manage disagreements? Dress and undress himself? Go to the toilet, clean himself and wash his hands? Sit nicely at meal times? Use a knife and fork? Answer questions about a story? Use a scissors correctly? Share with other children? Take part in imaginative play? Make things out of play dough? Complete puzzles? Make things out of Lego, stickler bricks etc? Hold a pencil correctly? Form letters and numbers correctly? How is his writing speed? And so on.
Reception is learning all these things and lots more, it's not just about the academics.
I think you should let him go through reception and allow them to assess him then, to see what additional support he needs.

ToDuk · 09/05/2018 05:53

I might see what I can do in terms of assessment.
Please push for any formal assessments you can get. Its much easier to get am EHCP of you have these to show areas of need in particular.

user789653241 · 09/05/2018 07:40

Forgot to add, mastery is "expected" level for end of each year group. Mastery with greater depth is exceeding expected, so school will try that for more able to achieve at the end of each year group.

brilliotic · 09/05/2018 12:33

I think OP has made it clear that she understands about all the 'other' things at school, and has already completed those parts of the form referring to her child's social, emotional and medical needs. She is not trying to de-emphasize this side of things. She is merely asking for advice on the academic side, which counts too. Asking about the academic side does not mean she doesn't care about anything else!

Just because a child has complex needs does not mean their academics should be ignored.
Just because a child is academically very able, does equally not mean that their academic learning should be ignored.

OP, I think realistic asks for the academic side of things, for a highly able child with complex needs, is difficult to say as it is very rare. I think you won't be able to say beforehand which of your asks are realistic. It will depend on the school and their willingness, and ability, and resources.

So I would go about it differently: Rather than trying to determine what is realistic, go purely by your child's needs. Determine what is essential for him, and what would be really helpful, and what would be rather nice.

What does he need in order to learn?
(Being careful to consider developing depth of understanding also, not purely 'more' and going further through the curriculum.) What are the tools/conditions/resources/interactions he needs, to develop depth, and to progress in his learning?
This could be things like access to appropriate level books/textbooks for self study, access to computer programmes for self learning, space and time and quiet to follow up on his interests, a person who guides him through something/gently questions him, to develop deeper understanding, a feedback system, ... I don't know, only you know what your child needs in order to learn. And of course they won't be able to have this all the time, and much of the time the focus will (and should) be on other aspects, but provision should be made for him so that he too can develop academically.
Maybe for your child you need to point out that your child is perfectly capable of learning new things simply by being provided with the material at the appropriate level. But is not capable of getting deeper understanding of anything by doing lots of repetition/going over the same again and again/doing worksheets. So your child needs, in order to make academic progress, human help to reach deeper understanding of the things he can do already, or resources for self-study to push his learning further 'ahead'. (Just guessing here, you know best!)
E.g. one of my children learns brilliantly from being taught, the other learns only from figuring things out. The second needs opportunities to puzzle about and tinker with things (at the right level) or she won't learn. Explanations and even demonstrations don't work for her. The first needs explanations (oral or written), again at the right level. Luckily they are both within a standard range of ability, so they do get opportunities to learn at school without me having to demand their learning needs to be met, even if not all the time.

What would be helpful?
Perhaps there are things (approaches/resources/...) that aren't absolutely necessary to enable him to learn, but that would make the whole experience smoother and thus probably would be worthwhile not just for him, but also for the rest of the class, to have implemented. E.g. he learns best if someone checks in on him every few minutes to check comprehension. Or he learns best if left alone for a large block of time with feedback at the end. Or if he has 5 minutes of someone doing something with him 1-1, his learning will be equal to a whole day of group or class learning. Or he learns best if he can devote a whole day (or week?) to e.g. maths, then the next day (or week) to science, etc... or he learns best if he can frequently move his interest from one thing to the next.

And 'nice' are things that you could absolutely do without but would really make him, and you, happy!

All that said, unfortunately I believe it is rather likely that your child's school will ignore his academic learning until, IDK, secondary school or so. They will be highly interested in developing his ability to demonstrate his ability to pass the KS1 /KS2 SATS, but not interested in actually developing his ability further. Chances are that your 'He needs access to X in order to learn' will be met with 'He needs to demonstrate to us that he can do Y before we can do anything else.' Ensuring he has academic stimulation and continues to make progress will be up to you, I fear.

RubiaPTA · 09/05/2018 18:36

@brilliotic yes exactly, thank you. That's very helpful. I hadn't thought about it but he definitely does learn better with a large variety of resources on a topic rather than repetition. Alot to think about and figure out. I am immensely worried that because he can't demonstrate something on demand they'll class him as not being able although I'm fairly certain he could pass the ks1, possibly even the ks2, sats if he wanted to do them.

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user789653241 · 09/05/2018 18:48

If he won't do it on demand, you can always print out past sats papers/work books and let him do it when he wants to, and take in with him for the meeting or after summer?

RubiaPTA · 09/05/2018 21:57

Would they just accept that though?

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