Are my concerns about cultural differences valid or am I being racist?

[TheMotherOfBears]

I'm hoping to hear views especially from anyone who has grappled with this issue for their own DCs...

DS has a place at our local state primary for September. It's an outstanding school and I like it.

When I applied I knew he was likely to be the only child in his year who is not from one particular cultural and ethnic background. At that time I didn't give this fact any thought because "that shouldn't matter". But now we've got the offer I'm finding it does and I'm worried even though I don't want to be.

My concern is that all the other children come from the same culture (>90% speak the same first language). DS is very social and loves play dates, birthday parties etc. I know he'll be fine making friends in school, but I worry he'll be excluded from social gatherings out of school and people won't take up our invite to parties etc.

I've spoken to local parents - including one teacher who sent her DC to a school that was similarly monocultural - and she said she regretted it as it made her DD sad. Her DD always felt left out, wasn't included in cultural events because she was not of that culture, and other kids (even her pals) turned down her invites to parties, play dates etc. There was no problem per se - she had genuine friends in school. She was simply an outsider in the wider community. Her DM cautioned me to think about these things when choosing a school for my DS.

Other state schools have places which are more diverse but they aren't on my doorstep!

So, what would you do? Send your DS to the local state school which is otherwise great? Or look elsewhere? We have other options both state and private.

[TheMotherOfBears]

Thank you all for your responses! You've all given me lots to think about.

@DuchyDuke & @HoppingGreen I believe the make up of the school does contribute to its high achieving culture. That high achieving culture is part of the attraction of the school for me.

In some ways I feel like we're deciding between a school with a higher chance of him making a good group of friends and a school where he's got a good chance of succeeding academically.

@mishfish I did see other more multicultural state schools. I liked the feel of one in particular which had a wide variation of backgrounds (mix of BME backgrounds and a handful of white pupils.) I feel like the risk of my DS being excluded at this school would be far less as surely all the pupils would need to mix together and wouldn't coalesce around one group.

@jellygumboots the school we have been allocated is small which is adding to my concern.

[cloudtree]

My DC are at an academically selective independent school outside of London. The vast majority of the children in the infant and primary school are not white. On average there are about 4 white children in a class of 20ish children with the majority being of indian/pakistani origin.

Interestingly this changes and the percentage of white children increases at senior school level where there is another large intake.

[elliejjtiny]

Sorry for the thread derail but do you mind telling me roughly where these schools are in England where white British children are ethnic minorities and there are high numbers of children whose first language is not English? Just wondering as my dc go to a school where there are no more than 2 children in each year group who are not white British and most of those children their first language is English. Many families have lived in this area for generations. I thought that was fairly usual. Maybe my local town is just not very diverse for some reason.

[polkadotpixie]

@elliejjtiny I went to school in Leicester, 1995-2000

[Xenia]

ellie, I don't want to say where I live but basically an outer London borough with I think one of the most mixed groups in the country from lots of jews to many people from the Indian subcontinent. It is very regionally different. Eg I am from new Northumberland originally which is 97% white.

I also agree with the comments above that culture is a mix of things. I like the private school culture of people working very hard to achieve good careers and I suppose I buy that by paying school fees. Other people might want a Catholic culture in a school. Others might want lots of Steiner freedom. Some might want a working class or posh culture. Others might prefer single sex (I do).

[cloudtree]

East midlands (not Leicester). City Centre selective independent school. Very high level of children with British born, Asian ethnicity parents.

[BackforGood]

ellie various Cities have already been listed upthread.

In Birmingham, for example, a fraction over 50% of people under 30 (I am quoting this from memory so might not be exactly precise) consider themselves to be something other than "white British". Now, they may be Black British, they may be White Eastern European, they may be white other. There are hundreds of different cultures and races and ethnic groups in the City. As is the nature of society, a lot of ethnic groups will settle where they feel comfortable - where they perhaps already know other folk, or where the shops stock foods they are familiar with, so you get areas of the City that are overwhelmingly folk from Asian back grounds for example. Traditionally, Indian and Pakistani communities don't get on (go read about partition in India from 70 years ago to see why), so they will settle in different areas - just as an example.
However, there are hundreds of schools all over the City where they have families for whom English isn't the first language. It's pretty common for there to be several dozen languages spoken at school across the City, not just one small part. The University, for example attracts staff from around the world, so schools their children attend whilst they are here have all sorts of home languages spoken. It certainly isn't just inner City schools.

[elliejjtiny]

That makes sense. I live in a small town in the West country where there isn't many people from different places.

[Crouchendmumoftwo]

My friend put her son in a similar situation. When he had a birthday party noone came as they didnt mix. He had no play dates as it wasnt part of their culture and they kept themselves to themselves and it was really sad for him, he didnt have any friends. She had strong socialist principles about going to the local school and supporting the local school unfortunately it was her son that bore the brunt of her beliefs. I would never do it as it's just not fair. I think diverse, non religious schools should be the only option for all kids.

[TheMotherOfBears]

I should add in response to some comments further up the thread that I'm not convinced white people can experience racism even if a minority in one setting (like school) so that's not really my concern. Certainly I worry about prejudice, but not "reverse" racism. At the end of the day my DS is still a white male middle class boy with all the privilege that entails in wider society.

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

In DS's primary class, in a naice village in the north west there was a kid with Asian heritage, two kids with black heritage, a kid with Chinese heritage and a Polish kid. With the exception of the Polish kid all the others had one white parent and were very middle class British in culture.

So even if the class didn't look like a monoculture from the photos, it pretty much was.

[TheMotherOfBears]

To clarify my last post: I was trying to say I'm not concerned about my DS and "reverse" racism. Actual racism against groups who have experienced historic repression is very much a concern! And something that DS should be aware of and sympathetic to.

[YimminiYoudar]

I thought of this thread while listening to this programme on radio 4 yesterday.

When immigration started rising significantly back in the 60s there was a policy to bus immigrant children around to further-afield schools so that individual schools didn't become immigrant schools. It did spring from an original good intention but by dictating that some races would be treated differently to others when it comes to school choice it was obviously racist and was much criticised.

Would it be better if schools in areas that have some schools like this abandoned all parental choice and used random lottery allocations for all school places to force more children to travel further to school (not very environmental) and smooth out the multicultural mix between schools?

[polkadotwellies]

I think school is as much about socialisation and building confidence as much as education.

You do your growing up at school and I have longlife friends from my own school.

I think it would be really sad to be isolated when teen years so I would think long and hard.

[AutoFilled]

likely to be BME DCs in an all white class. Have you DCs in this situation?

Outside of London. DC is the only mixed race in her class. There is a British asian. Everyone else is white middle class. Ethnic minorities outside of London just deals with it.

[sashh]

I'd be asking the school what they do to encourage integration. I try to bring multicultural aspects into my teaching, easier with 'health and social care' then it is with Computer Science but I still do bits like saying, "Happy new year to anyone who is celebrating this weekend" even if I know there is no one in that particular class who is celebrating Lunar New year, or Zoroastrian New Year or...

YimminiYoudar

I'm actually old enough to remember that happening, and the nun who was head or my RC school quietly reassuring parents that as an RC school they wouldn't be getting any 'of that'.

She obviously wasn't aware that some Pakistani families are RC and the school did become a little more diverse.

[MistressDeeCee]

Children from ethnic minorities have to deal with this situation all the time. They and their parents deal with it, and get on. Imagine what it was like for them years ago, the bullying, the isolation

I agree with this. When I arrived in UK and went to school there were only around 10 black kids. & children still arrive from overseas nowadays anyway

This thread is surreal in some parts. Although I can understand it if say OP you're worried about your DC socially..inviting kids to birthday party and they don't attend.

Aside from that there's no proof anything untoward will happen to your son. A lot of people scaremonger where they see a lot of brown faces that's all

Given the make up of the school you must surely live in an area where there are many people of that particular culture, so its not going to be 'new' for you or your son.

[Teateaandmoretea]

It's not really about London is it? It's about cities/ some large towns v more suburban/rural.

Yanbu at all op, but I wouldn't send a non-Catholic child to a Catholic primary either. It is also a myth that Indian/ Pakistani background = hardworking. I'm sure in grammars/ private schools it's true and that many clearly are (highly educated in professions everywhere) but like any other race/ culture they have their share of the lazy/ entitled. I speak from teaching experience.

[GoldenMcOldie]

If you like the school, would it be possible for your DS to learn the language (immersion at school, youtube of movies in the language)?

IMO, a very valid concern.

[FaFoutis]

My nephew went to a primary school like this. He was the only one in his class (all the way through primary) not from the majority culture. He was isolated and miserable, and no child from his class ever came to his house or birthday parties, despite invites. It has affected him in the long term in my view.
I wouldn't send my child there. Look elsewhere.

[BBCK]

My children are not the same ethnicity as 90% of their classmates. There were no issues in Primary school and my son has no friendship issues at all in secondary school. My 18 year old daughter has found the lack of racial diversity increasingly difficult though and has very few friends from school. She is desperate to go away to university in an ethnically diverse area to mix with people more like her. As you have a son OP you may find few problems as boys seem to have more common interests than girls, however I would not send my child to a mono- ethnic school if I had a choice.

[PenelopeFlintstone]

my DS is still a white male middle class boy with all the privilege that entails in wider society.
He might not feel very privileged if no-one comes to his birthday party!

[polkadotpixie]

@TheMotherOfBears I totally disagree. White people can definitely be victims of racism! I was called a white bitch, white slag etc very frequently during years 7-9. The other girls seemed to mature a bit in years 10 & 11 and just ignored me instead...how is that anything other than racism?

[Xenia]

Tea, London state secondaries do seem to benefit from first or second generation immigrant children who work very hard (and I see the same in the private schools). It can also depend on family background whatever the race and culture.

The interesting point is how do you fare if your family puts you in a school where you are different - the only poor boy in the posh boarding school or the Paul McCartney daughters or the Duke of (forgotten his name) who used the local comp or the only Protestant in the NI Catholic school or whatever.

I can see both points here - my sons were white in a majority non white (but fee paying) school and they did benefit from that because of the other teenagers mostly not seeing girls, not smoking, not taking drugs, having drinking (I don't drink either), going to bed early. i am not suggesting all these boys are saints and it was universally like this but there were enough parents with similar standards that it did help academically and socially (socially being my own view that it is better to save having sexual partners until you leave school which of course it not everyone's view).

The other side is they benefit in the way the only two black children at a Devon comp full of locals might not - in other words did they avoid racism (not that I am saying there would necessarily be racism against those black children inDevon). They certainly like those Devon two would have been stood out a bit. Some of their interests were a bit more like the majority white teachers' interests but I would not go so far as to say they were advantaged in any material way. I just saw a lot of human beings (in this case mostly male in terms of staff and boys) as different as humans are whatever their skin colour.

We certainly had no problems with birthday parties in the years when they had them but I should alomost not be on the thread as I am talking about fee paying schools which a totally different kettle of fish where parents almost want to pay to get the traditional UK experience as it were.

[TheMotherOfBears]

Hi @polkadotpixie that sounds like a horrible experience and I'm sorry that it happened to you. It certainly sounds like you were a victim of prejudice and bullying and you were being discriminated against. Racism however - as I understand it - is related to how power is distributed in society as a whole. It describes a system of disadvantage based on race.

Even though I think this is an important distinction, I realise it is also an academic one. It would have provided no comfort to you as a little one going through a terrible time of bullying and prejudice. Racism or not it was clearly wrong.