Are my concerns about cultural differences valid or am I being racist?

[TheMotherOfBears]

I'm hoping to hear views especially from anyone who has grappled with this issue for their own DCs...

DS has a place at our local state primary for September. It's an outstanding school and I like it.

When I applied I knew he was likely to be the only child in his year who is not from one particular cultural and ethnic background. At that time I didn't give this fact any thought because "that shouldn't matter". But now we've got the offer I'm finding it does and I'm worried even though I don't want to be.

My concern is that all the other children come from the same culture (>90% speak the same first language). DS is very social and loves play dates, birthday parties etc. I know he'll be fine making friends in school, but I worry he'll be excluded from social gatherings out of school and people won't take up our invite to parties etc.

I've spoken to local parents - including one teacher who sent her DC to a school that was similarly monocultural - and she said she regretted it as it made her DD sad. Her DD always felt left out, wasn't included in cultural events because she was not of that culture, and other kids (even her pals) turned down her invites to parties, play dates etc. There was no problem per se - she had genuine friends in school. She was simply an outsider in the wider community. Her DM cautioned me to think about these things when choosing a school for my DS.

Other state schools have places which are more diverse but they aren't on my doorstep!

So, what would you do? Send your DS to the local state school which is otherwise great? Or look elsewhere? We have other options both state and private.

[BackforGood]

Outside of London, the monoculture is a white one.

What a load of poppycock. There are loads of schools in Cities all over the UK where it is perfectly possible for that to be the reverse.

[Notintheframe]

87% of the UK population is white. London has the greatest concentration of ethnic minorities. So yes, outside of London the majority of the schools will be monoculture. It is a monoculture outside of London.

In fact, most workplaces outside of London are monoculture.

[Notintheframe]

OP, your concern is not racist. Your child will be fine. They'll probably learn a lot more about the world around them. You just need to help your DC navigate the challenges and you could try making friends with some of the parents.

[polkadotpixie]

I went to school in a predominantly (90% +) Asian area and was 1 of only 2 white girls in my class and I was ostracised, excluded and bullied a lot for my race. It was horrible and no-one cared because it wasn't considered possible that I could be a victim of racism because I'm white

I wouldn't want my children to go to a school with such an overwhelming majority of any race. I think it's important for children to mix with and form friendships with children of all races to avoid segregation

[BackforGood]

Simply not true NotintheFrame.
Lot of schools in lots of Cities have a wonderfully diverse population, but there are definitely plenty of schools in my City that are populated by one ethnicity or another, that isn't White British.

[Lifechallenges]

Birmingham, Leicester, Manchester, Preston, Nottingham and other cities I know well probably have schools that are all one faith other than Christian. There are also some faith schools of course; Jewish, RC, Hindu etc Its certainly not just a London thing

[Hoppinggreen]

Rochdale, Halifax, Huddersfield, Oldham (not cities I know)
All have schools with over 90 % non white British majority. And those aren’t faith schools.
It’s diffcult because if white British people won’t send their dc to a school where over 90% of the other children arecof a different ( to them but same to eachother) culture then that won’t change.
But I wouldn’t do it and I don’t blane anyone else who doesn’t

[Notintheframe]

The majority of schools outside of London are predominantly or completely white. That is a fact. A majority does not mean that there are no schools outside of London that are predominantly non-white.

[YimminiYoudar]

My cousin's child is in year 3 of a school like this. It's been 3.5 years of no classmates accepting any party invitation, play date suggestion or any other kind of interaction out of school, no parent being willing to exchange more than the most basic of greeting at the school gate, and not being included in group friendships in school. Due to an inheritance they are able to switch to private now, and I think it's the right choice for them but obviously not many families in this kind of situation would be able to do this.

[BackforGood]

At 20:29 onSat, this is what you wrote :
Outside of London, the monoculture is a white one. which is what people are telling you isn't true.

Yes, statistically, if you look at all UK (or even English) schools, the figures pale into insignificance, but we were challenging the claim that London is the only City that has schools where any single culture was white.

[JuicyLucy72]

Notintheframe

I think you need to revise your "facts" on the racial and immigration demography of the UK as a whole as it simply untrue that most schools outside London are predominantly white.

[ProjectMoose]

Surely if 87% of the UK population is White British then there are going to be many many schools which are predominantly white? That makes sense to me.

I live in a large northern city, the schools in my local area (having visited several in recent months) are predominantly white. This is not so much the case in the inner city schools but it has been noticeable in the schools on the outskirts of the city.

It's not racist to be concerned about tour child being in the minority but for a lot of us there is no choice!

[Lifechallenges]

The problem is that you can end up back at the faith school for and against argument in cities. If the RC and CofE schools take a disproportionate % of the white children, then the community schools can end up skewed. Then city demographics kick in as certain areas are predominately one ethnic background. If I had my way I’d make all schools non demoniational and then every one could just use the local schools and this issue would be less likely.

[TheRealMotherGoose]

Following with interest.

We have an outstanding school right near us that is 95% children with English as a second language. I've been very tempted to send my child there and may still do. The culture is definitely non-white and immigrant-heavy, but I'd venture a guess that there are a good many different cultures within that (Somali, Ethiopian, Bangladeshi, particularly)

[DuchyDuke]

My guess it’s Outstanding because that culture values education and your child may flourish if he makes friends. For example some predominately Hindu schools in Leicester regularly knock out more Oxbridge / Ivy League students & self-made millionaires than even the local (predom white) grammars. A lot of predom Arab-Muslim schools in North London are similar.

To give you insight; I come from an Indian background and nothing would stop us (whatever the religion) from enrolling kids into an outstanding school where they were the only Indian /Hindu /Sikh. I think that’s the difference between cultures; when I suffered racism my parents gave me tutition until I, a dypraxic dyslexic, was at the top of the class.

[Xenia]

My children have benefited from being educated in a majority non white/ mostly Indian and Pakistani private school as the work ethic is good and the family life in most ways is similar to ours - single sex, hard working, there to study, expect very high grades, would be delighted if they became lawyers like I am etc etc. I think it depends on the area and the type of people particularly with teenagers. Hard working peers are great to have in your class particularly when public exams are coming up. If instead the children (whatever background) had low ambition, did not understand the importance of education, did not expect to go to good universities etc then I would be concerned. (We even have a local state hindu primary school in our area (and Jewish and C of E and Catholic and plenty that are not religious) although I think for that one you probably do have to be hindu to go there)

[Hoppinggreen]

the real you may find that the school is outstanding because it does such a great job with the children who have English as a 2nd language
It’s possible that schools are graded higher by Ofsted for bringing disadvantaged children up to an average level than they might be for helping higher achievers achieve even more.
Carefully read the Ofsted report to see if this is the case

[Alpineflowers]

Notintheframe -The majority of schools outside of London are predominantly or completely white. That is a fact. A majority does not mean that there are no schools outside of London that are predominantly non-white.

The majority of ethnic minorities in England live outside London.
I think we need to get away from this London-centric idea that the capital is the only area with a large ethnic minority population.

As an aside, the 'Trojan Horse' schools scandal started in Birmingham.

Operation Trojan Horse refers to, what was accused of being, an organised attempt by a number of associated individuals to introduce an Islamist or Salafist ethos into several schools in Birmingham, England
Detailed findings
The report outlined instances of Islamism or Salafism found in the schools. They included:
Anti-Western rhetoric, particularly anti-US and anti-Israel;
Segregationism – dividing the world into us and them, with them to include all non-Muslims and other Muslims who disagree;
Perception of a worldwide conspiracy against Muslims;
Attempts to impose its views and practices upon others;
Intolerance of difference, whether the secular, other religions or other Muslims.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Trojan_Horse

[DuchyDuke]

@alpine - why give Birmingham’s Trojan Horse scandal as an example; EVERY school in central Birmingham has a Muslim minority and most are bloody amazing! Use Leicester - where Indian / East African / West Indian warehouse operatives produced GPs/ doctors/nurses/teachers investment bankers in a single generation via focussing on education.

[DuchyDuke]

Muslim majority

[mishfish]

My sons old school was very white and middle class. There was 1 child in it who was from Asia and did not speak a word of English, neither did his parents. He was treated like a bit of a ‘novelty’ child by the other children (like when primary school children play with real life babies/toddler like they’re dollies) and I thought it was appalling. He didn’t have any proper friends and was left out of a lot of things but I think that was mainly due to the language barrier (such as not going into school in non uniform, taking part in world book day etc)

We both moved our children out of that school and coincidently they ended up in the same new school which is much much more multicultural and he seems a lot more involved now.

Obviously it’s a bit different for you, did you see any more multi cultural schools and get a different feel for them?

[Alpineflowers]

DuchyDuke-@alpine - why give Birmingham’s Trojan Horse scandal as an example

Why not?
It wasn't just one school and it didn't just happen in Birmingham.

[jellygumboots]

@duchyduke For example some predominately Hindu schools in Leicester regularly knock out more Oxbridge / Ivy League students & self-made millionaires than even the local (predom white) grammars. A lot of predom Arab-Muslim schools in North London are similar.

From personal experience I would disagree, though I went to uni 17 years ago so may be out of date.

My school in Leicester was

[FrLukeDuke]

No you aren't being racist. You wouldn't have applied there in the first place if you were. Your concerns are valid as you may experience the same issues your friend's dc did

[dameofdilemma]

Of course the majority of schools in the country are majority white British (you don't need to be a statistician to work that out).
But that doesn't necessarily mean they are mono-cultural. Not all 'White British' people have the same religious or political views or social practices.

And not all ethnic minorities have the same religious or political views or social practices either. They're often just perceived as one homogeneous group of 'asians' or 'afro-carribeans' or 'muslims' but in reality can have little in common.