Are my concerns about cultural differences valid or am I being racist?

[TheMotherOfBears]

I'm hoping to hear views especially from anyone who has grappled with this issue for their own DCs...

DS has a place at our local state primary for September. It's an outstanding school and I like it.

When I applied I knew he was likely to be the only child in his year who is not from one particular cultural and ethnic background. At that time I didn't give this fact any thought because "that shouldn't matter". But now we've got the offer I'm finding it does and I'm worried even though I don't want to be.

My concern is that all the other children come from the same culture (>90% speak the same first language). DS is very social and loves play dates, birthday parties etc. I know he'll be fine making friends in school, but I worry he'll be excluded from social gatherings out of school and people won't take up our invite to parties etc.

I've spoken to local parents - including one teacher who sent her DC to a school that was similarly monocultural - and she said she regretted it as it made her DD sad. Her DD always felt left out, wasn't included in cultural events because she was not of that culture, and other kids (even her pals) turned down her invites to parties, play dates etc. There was no problem per se - she had genuine friends in school. She was simply an outsider in the wider community. Her DM cautioned me to think about these things when choosing a school for my DS.

Other state schools have places which are more diverse but they aren't on my doorstep!

So, what would you do? Send your DS to the local state school which is otherwise great? Or look elsewhere? We have other options both state and private.

[drspouse]

(But also - if you invite just one child from a different background as my DS did - the family may be wary. But inviting 10 and making sure you speak to all the parents in the playground may make the families more confident to come to the party).

[drspouse]

Re parties - my DS' close friend does not go to parties but we have a nice big bunch of friends including some from other ethnic backgrounds than my DS, though it is true his school is more diverse in the true sense of the word.
My DD has more friends that "look like her" not surprisingly and at the moment (she's in nursery) their parents are mainly those that work for the same large employer as me as it's a workplace nursery, so are from a variety of backgrounds and come to parties though they seem to mainly do family teas for their own parties.
However at school most of the BME children are Muslim and again do mosque school daily. If we struggle with parties etc. I think I will persuade her to also invite children from her own after school activities and maybe just have a small party.

[drspouse]

I have a BME DD and I wouldn't send her to an all white school BUT your child is getting a lot of exposure to White British people outside school.

The school DS goes to and that she will go to is about 25% non-White-British which is typical for our area except for some of the lower income estates where the schools are all White British (there is lower income housing off the estates too, and poorer families do tend to segregate on/off the estates, while better off families are less segregated).

DS has one particular friend who goes to Mosque school every weekday and we make an effort to play at the park at weekends with him - I just asked his mum for her number. But he doesn't tend to go to birthday parties it is true.

The other thing to consider is joining a women's group - we have a local Christian/Muslim group - and then you can get to know the mums. Refugee groups will also possibly include some school parents and your DC can get to know the other children from school that way.

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

Thing is OP, a massive factor in your child succeeding academically. will be whether or not he enjoys going to school. And if he feels excluded he may switch off entirely, however good the academic standards.

[SemperIdem]

ellie

The Cardiff school my daughter is likely to go to is 94% ESL intake. People describe Cardiff as multicultural but it really isn’t. All other areas in the city are white majority, overwhelmingly so, with the area I live in being where the biggest Muslim community live. Next area over has the biggest Sikh community. Neighbouring area on the other side is where Cardiff’s historic black community lives.

[sportinguista]

Ok, so we were in this situation and we managed till year three, we also had concerns about the academic standards too and religious bullying so it wasn't just the social isolation although that was a factor too. The schools around where we are are a similar split and in any case, we'd have little chance due to oversubscription anyway. Fortunately, we had the option to go home ed and we've never looked back. The social opportunities are far wider and he has friends whose birthday parties he gets invites to. It is sad and the losers are both sets of kids in a way. But you cannot change things easily I tried to stick with it and I regret not doing this earlier. To be honest I'm now totally committed to home ed and love it!

[TheMotherOfBears]

@PenelopeFlintstone - I quite agree. DS would be devastated with no party mates no matter what the reason.

[TheMotherOfBears]

Hi @polkadotpixie that sounds like a horrible experience and I'm sorry that it happened to you. It certainly sounds like you were a victim of prejudice and bullying and you were being discriminated against. Racism however - as I understand it - is related to how power is distributed in society as a whole. It describes a system of disadvantage based on race.

Even though I think this is an important distinction, I realise it is also an academic one. It would have provided no comfort to you as a little one going through a terrible time of bullying and prejudice. Racism or not it was clearly wrong.

[Xenia]

Tea, London state secondaries do seem to benefit from first or second generation immigrant children who work very hard (and I see the same in the private schools). It can also depend on family background whatever the race and culture.

The interesting point is how do you fare if your family puts you in a school where you are different - the only poor boy in the posh boarding school or the Paul McCartney daughters or the Duke of (forgotten his name) who used the local comp or the only Protestant in the NI Catholic school or whatever.

I can see both points here - my sons were white in a majority non white (but fee paying) school and they did benefit from that because of the other teenagers mostly not seeing girls, not smoking, not taking drugs, having drinking (I don't drink either), going to bed early. i am not suggesting all these boys are saints and it was universally like this but there were enough parents with similar standards that it did help academically and socially (socially being my own view that it is better to save having sexual partners until you leave school which of course it not everyone's view).

The other side is they benefit in the way the only two black children at a Devon comp full of locals might not - in other words did they avoid racism (not that I am saying there would necessarily be racism against those black children inDevon). They certainly like those Devon two would have been stood out a bit. Some of their interests were a bit more like the majority white teachers' interests but I would not go so far as to say they were advantaged in any material way. I just saw a lot of human beings (in this case mostly male in terms of staff and boys) as different as humans are whatever their skin colour.

We certainly had no problems with birthday parties in the years when they had them but I should alomost not be on the thread as I am talking about fee paying schools which a totally different kettle of fish where parents almost want to pay to get the traditional UK experience as it were.

[polkadotpixie]

@TheMotherOfBears I totally disagree. White people can definitely be victims of racism! I was called a white bitch, white slag etc very frequently during years 7-9. The other girls seemed to mature a bit in years 10 & 11 and just ignored me instead...how is that anything other than racism?

[PenelopeFlintstone]

my DS is still a white male middle class boy with all the privilege that entails in wider society.
He might not feel very privileged if no-one comes to his birthday party!

[BBCK]

My children are not the same ethnicity as 90% of their classmates. There were no issues in Primary school and my son has no friendship issues at all in secondary school. My 18 year old daughter has found the lack of racial diversity increasingly difficult though and has very few friends from school. She is desperate to go away to university in an ethnically diverse area to mix with people more like her. As you have a son OP you may find few problems as boys seem to have more common interests than girls, however I would not send my child to a mono- ethnic school if I had a choice.

[FaFoutis]

My nephew went to a primary school like this. He was the only one in his class (all the way through primary) not from the majority culture. He was isolated and miserable, and no child from his class ever came to his house or birthday parties, despite invites. It has affected him in the long term in my view.
I wouldn't send my child there. Look elsewhere.

[GoldenMcOldie]

If you like the school, would it be possible for your DS to learn the language (immersion at school, youtube of movies in the language)?

IMO, a very valid concern.

[Teateaandmoretea]

It's not really about London is it? It's about cities/ some large towns v more suburban/rural.

Yanbu at all op, but I wouldn't send a non-Catholic child to a Catholic primary either. It is also a myth that Indian/ Pakistani background = hardworking. I'm sure in grammars/ private schools it's true and that many clearly are (highly educated in professions everywhere) but like any other race/ culture they have their share of the lazy/ entitled. I speak from teaching experience.

[MistressDeeCee]

Children from ethnic minorities have to deal with this situation all the time. They and their parents deal with it, and get on. Imagine what it was like for them years ago, the bullying, the isolation

I agree with this. When I arrived in UK and went to school there were only around 10 black kids. & children still arrive from overseas nowadays anyway

This thread is surreal in some parts. Although I can understand it if say OP you're worried about your DC socially..inviting kids to birthday party and they don't attend.

Aside from that there's no proof anything untoward will happen to your son. A lot of people scaremonger where they see a lot of brown faces that's all

Given the make up of the school you must surely live in an area where there are many people of that particular culture, so its not going to be 'new' for you or your son.

[sashh]

I'd be asking the school what they do to encourage integration. I try to bring multicultural aspects into my teaching, easier with 'health and social care' then it is with Computer Science but I still do bits like saying, "Happy new year to anyone who is celebrating this weekend" even if I know there is no one in that particular class who is celebrating Lunar New year, or Zoroastrian New Year or...

YimminiYoudar

I'm actually old enough to remember that happening, and the nun who was head or my RC school quietly reassuring parents that as an RC school they wouldn't be getting any 'of that'.

She obviously wasn't aware that some Pakistani families are RC and the school did become a little more diverse.

[AutoFilled]

likely to be BME DCs in an all white class. Have you DCs in this situation?

Outside of London. DC is the only mixed race in her class. There is a British asian. Everyone else is white middle class. Ethnic minorities outside of London just deals with it.

[polkadotwellies]

I think school is as much about socialisation and building confidence as much as education.

You do your growing up at school and I have longlife friends from my own school.

I think it would be really sad to be isolated when teen years so I would think long and hard.

[YimminiYoudar]

I thought of this thread while listening to this programme on radio 4 yesterday.

When immigration started rising significantly back in the 60s there was a policy to bus immigrant children around to further-afield schools so that individual schools didn't become immigrant schools. It did spring from an original good intention but by dictating that some races would be treated differently to others when it comes to school choice it was obviously racist and was much criticised.

Would it be better if schools in areas that have some schools like this abandoned all parental choice and used random lottery allocations for all school places to force more children to travel further to school (not very environmental) and smooth out the multicultural mix between schools?

[TheMotherOfBears]

To clarify my last post: I was trying to say I'm not concerned about my DS and "reverse" racism. Actual racism against groups who have experienced historic repression is very much a concern! And something that DS should be aware of and sympathetic to.

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

In DS's primary class, in a naice village in the north west there was a kid with Asian heritage, two kids with black heritage, a kid with Chinese heritage and a Polish kid. With the exception of the Polish kid all the others had one white parent and were very middle class British in culture.

So even if the class didn't look like a monoculture from the photos, it pretty much was.

[TheMotherOfBears]

I should add in response to some comments further up the thread that I'm not convinced white people can experience racism even if a minority in one setting (like school) so that's not really my concern. Certainly I worry about prejudice, but not "reverse" racism. At the end of the day my DS is still a white male middle class boy with all the privilege that entails in wider society.

[Crouchendmumoftwo]

My friend put her son in a similar situation. When he had a birthday party noone came as they didnt mix. He had no play dates as it wasnt part of their culture and they kept themselves to themselves and it was really sad for him, he didnt have any friends. She had strong socialist principles about going to the local school and supporting the local school unfortunately it was her son that bore the brunt of her beliefs. I would never do it as it's just not fair. I think diverse, non religious schools should be the only option for all kids.

[elliejjtiny]

That makes sense. I live in a small town in the West country where there isn't many people from different places.