Atheist Mum - fed up with Christian Teaching in school

[Yb23487643]

Any other atheist Mums fed up with kids being taught about & subsequently believing in God & Jesus because they take everything teacher says as gospel (excuse the pun!).

I’d like my child to learn about religions but to be taught that Christians believe so&so & Hindus believe so&so etc. Even to have Passover & pagan goddess Eostre (or other Spring goddesses) at this time of year to give a rounded education. He did learn about Ramadan but thought it unbelievable. Christianity seems to have been taught with more credibility. He think god will drown bad people - like Noah’s ark & that we came from Adam & Eve.
I’ve tried explaining that there’s lots of inequality in the world & that I don’t think God - if he existed - would punish the poor & disabled & poorly.

And that Jesus doesn’t have much to do with eggs & lambs & the Easter is more about Spring-related rebirth - leaves on trees, flowers out, fertility & baby animals etc.

Explained that lots of stories similar to & predating Christianity like Krishna/Jesus comparisons & that major Christian religious festivals coincide with preexisting equinox traditions.

Not sure whether to complain to school?

WWYD?

I really wanted him to learn above everything else is to treat other people kindly and to be tolerant of other people's views. And that teaching is at the heart of most religions once you strip away all the guff

Funny that, it's also the teaching of those who don't have a religion too. Athiests/agnostics/humanists/pagans etc believe in kindness, tolerance, love etc because its the right thing to do.....not because their religion tells them to do it.

I have really not seen children suffer because of religious teaching in schools. If a child has been conflicted for years it is because the parents say one thing and school another. The parents, of course, are trying to say their view is the only view (atheism) and the school is wrong and to be questioned. It is rather sad that a 4/5 year old is put in this position, in my view. If parents were relaxed and let children form their own views, nothing would come of it. Upsetting a child due to conflict between parents and school can be avoided. I donot like parents indoctrinating children in any way at all. Let themmake up their own minds. They are not required to be the same as their parents.

Knowing a child has to go to a religious school, because there is no alternative, can lead to a school life full of conflict, if you let it. If you keep a watching brief and do not teach your child anything about your views before school, you tend to get a very ambivalent child. Not an indoctrinated one! One way or another!

Funny that, it's also the teaching of those who don't have a religion too. Athiests/agnostics/humanists/pagans etc believe in kindness, tolerance, love etc because its the right thing to do.....not because their religion tells them to do it.

My point exactly!

@BubblesBuddy
It's not a question of just relaxing into it. My state school is required to spend about an hour a day on RE. The kids could be learning so much more about real things without it.

No, your state school is not required to spend 5 hours a week on RE. There is no defined amount of time to be spent on RE in any government legislation. What a church thinks is different but they should follow the agreed syllabus and 5 hours a week is clearly ludicrous. The recommendation is 5% of the curriculum. So just one visit would take up quite a bit of that. It could be about 1.25 hours per week or in fewer, longer, chunks. Obviously there is the daily act of worship but that can be very watered down and short.

Where I am a governor, we do relevant visits to places of worship and pre and after lessons. It is not weekly. Seems to suit everyone.

My state school is in NI. They are supposed to be doing it every day.
www.education-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/de/religious-education-core-syllabus-english-version.pdf
This is a state school.

I think it is crazy how religion is taught in non faith schools but I basically tell my son it’s all made up and so not true at all.

Do you tell them Father Christmas and the tooth fairy aren’t true either?

I'm going to take a wild guess and suggest that the Tooth fairy is not required as part of the curriculum.

Non-faith school but it’s quite a church going large village. From the sounds of it his teacher is Christian, “because she said it’s true” apparently, tho that’s from a 6yo. I think it’s brilliant to be taught about lots of religions & cultures - esp with tolerance, but Christianity not taught in the same way. Was also a bit gruesome re crucifixion & bizarrely no mention of much more cheery & happy Easter pagan beliefs. I might just enquire as to how it’s taught.

Reception age DC came home saying 'Jesus came back to life after he died so if you don't want to die you can come back'
I told her its made up, people can't really come back to life, and that Jesus was a real person but it was a long time ago and people made up a lot of stories in a book to try and explain where the world came from because back then they didn't understand as much as now, whereas now we can understand more of how the world works from science so only some people believe the stories now.

Also it's in a non religious school that they told her that!

One if ours thinks that god will drown you if you’re bad... 😱

Bubbles and squarks not getting into an argument but the bible isn't really anything about where the world came from aside from genesis. I think it's really important that children understand religion even if to be able to argue against it correctly.

Then they should teach about other religions as well as the bible.

@boylovesmeerkats when shes older I'll explain in more detail. But at this age she was already confused enough about why her teacher was telling her people could come back from being dead and I was saying they couldn't so needed a simple explanation.

@BWatchWatcher my DS (11) said the vicar that does a weekly assembly at his school did one on the theme of the word "fake" and gave the tooth fairy as an example of something that was fake and God as an example of something that isn't.

Luckily my DS has a mind of his own, finds it amusing, and a lesson in critical thinking.
I wouldn't dream of withdrawing him from collective worship - it's very educational, just not necessarily in the way it is intended. For example, another assembly leader misued tried to use the Holmesian Fallacy to argue that Jesus must have risen from the dead, on the grounds that all other explanations for the disappearance of his body have been ruled out by evidence. DS wasn't taken in by that argument for a minute and we had a really interesting discussion about it afterwards.

I personally don't think there's any need for them to know much detail about religion at a young age at all though. If she asks then I'll answer but its pointless knowledge on the whole. My SIL is Muslim and it's never come up in conversation with or been relevant to the kids, so I don't see why Christianity specifically needs to be known about when no one close to us even believes in it.

DS has his own theories on God (lack of), life, death and the hereafter. He came up with it when he was little and had pretty much stuck to it.

His (non church) school has connections with the church and they have Latin mass a few times a week.

He has survived unscathed.

Fair enough. My son asked me the same and I explained it was because Jesus was God's son and he was sent back for a short time and that some people believe they go to heaven after they die which is their way of coming back to life. I didn't say whether I believed all that, but it was a simple explanation of what it was. I do tell him that love doesn't die, and it can be a good way to talk about how people no longer with is live on in our hearts. Maybe over complicating things I guess.

No knowledge is pointless, especially in a world where most people follow a religion.

taking the long view, all DCs now adult and none are religious despite 3 attending CofE high school. But we have always actively engaged in the sense of talking about what they were learning, and telling them to be respctfully non participative during worship. But I did once have to go and speak to a reception teacher, as DD had come home saying Miss A had said X is the case (can't remember, but something Christians believe)

Me- you'll never guess what DD said last night! (tinkly laugh)
Miss A- no, what did she say?
Me- she said, Miss A told us all that X !!! (more laughter) I said, Noooo, DD you can't have been listening properly!
Miss A (looks nervous)
Me- Miss A must have said that christians believe X....what a silly mistake to make, DD (more laughter)
Miss A- ahah...yes, of course....of course I did

Never had any more trouble from her

@boylovesmeerkats that's probably why our views on its importance differs. I know a couple of Muslims, a few older christians and other than that everyone we socialise with is atheist. I know in other cultures religion is still very common but in Britain by the time this generation has grown up in my opinion Christianity will be dying out. The only few people I went to school with who were religious had extremely strict parents who effectively brainwashed them, and as knowledge becomes easier to access that will become less effective.

The difficulty in dividing "truth from non truth that clearly" is not just about positive and harmless things. Like in the OP's description of a child's reaction to Noah's Ark or many children's reaction to the crucifixion story. Tell a small child someone suffered, was tortured, and died for them and all that had happen because of their behaviour to save them and that amazing imagination works with that too. The recent #howtoevangelical on twitter has quite a few stories on how misuse of Bible stories on small kids created some weird, frightening ideas.

I'm not against religion being taught in schools, I think it needs to be taught better with the same consideration given to how we teach history or literature for age appropriateness and what kids will understand and likely take from the stories. There are schools and teachers that try but, really...it's often not. I wouldn't say for the amount of time that is meant to go into RE and 'Christian-based worship' that knowledge of any religious text or religion is particularly higher in the UK compared to other mostly Christian countries with seperation of church and state and don't have those requirements in schools.

Yb23487643 As others said, you can make complaints to schools or pull out but mostly it's a frustration that will pass once they get out of the 'teachers know all' stage so, while I would raise comment if a child was upset by something I thought was age inappropriate, I wouldn't bother with much there. What I find helpful is getting books of myths that include modern religious ones as well. Having all the stories side by side to go through and talk about their similarities has helped them understand the stories - and the issues with them - better than any explanation.

I've noticed that school assemblies, and church sermons aimed at children, seem to include sweet treats these days. The attached vicar at my DS's school hands out sweets to enthusiastic volunteers at his weekly assembly (parents were recently banned from sending in birthday sweets after some complained, but nobody has yet complained about the vicar ). And when we recently went to church for a Christening there were sweets handed out during the service and cakes afterwards. Clearly the way to a child's heart and mind is through their sweet tooth!

YADNBU.

I don't mind kids doing Nativity plays and so on- part of their cultural heritage. Also learning about Christianity and other religions in RE.

I do mind the way God is spoken about as fact in assemblies. This is in a non-denominational school. There is no such thing as a secular school in the UK, and this is hugely outdated.