Absence letter

[Bowwowjangles]

Can anyone tell me, please? Can they send a letter of absence for a condition which the school are aware of and is medical grounds?

long story short - my 7-year-old has severe incontinence issues. She is under local hospital, incontinence specialist and GP (every two weeks for monitoring of urine infections.) She has a urine infection every month and tomorrow is being seen by another specialist at Alder Hey.

The school is fully aware of the situation. My daughter as you can imagine has had a lot of time away from school. But we ask for work to be sent home for her (her education does matter to us but not at the detriment of her health)

We have just received this standard but a strongly worded letter. Tackling it head on we have spoken to the head - who I kid you not said 'Well if she is being seen by Alder Hey it must be quite serious but can you tell Alder Hey she has to get back to school!!!!!

What can I do? Can I get in touch with the LEA myself and explain - I understand completely about why the need etc but surely there has to be some kind of leeway with this?

Any help and guidance appreciated thanks

legally I have to send those letters and we don't want you getting in trouble

He is wrong. I strongly suspect he knows he is wrong. There is no legal requirement to send any letters. There is no way you can get in trouble. You cannot be fined for these absences nor can you be sued. Under the Education (Pupil Registration) (England) Regulations 2006 (Regulation 6(2)(b)(i)) any absence due to sickness or other unavoidable cause must be treated as an authorised absence.

The behaviour of this head appals me, as does the failure of the school to make the agreed provision for your daughter.

Unless this is a community school there is little the LA can do to help. Even if it is a community school you probably have to exhaust the school's complaints system before referring the matter to the LA. I would have another meeting with the head and tell him that, having taken legal advice, you have been advised that the school is not legally required to send these letters and that they cannot take any action over your daughter's absences. Refer him to the regulations I mention above. I rarely advise going in all guns blazing but in this situation I would be strongly tempted to tell the head that any further letters or failures by the school will lead to a formal complaint to the governors. And I would be looking for another school for your daughter.

Thank you prh47bridge, this was exactly the evidence I was looking for.

To be honest, as this is now the second time he has said this, I have drafted an email to the board of governors. I have also sent one the SEND liaison officer in our area. Asking what can be put in place. Is this too much at this stage?

I wish I could post the email on here but not sure I should?

On the register list, she is down as having 0 unauthorised absences. Yet he is saying she has dropped to 78% and legally has to send a form and we could get in trouble.

You do still get a letter. At least my ds did. I think it's standard procedure in many schools.
Only difference at my ds's school was, it comes with a note saying not to worry.

Your daughter's medical situation sounds incredibly similar to my daughters. We've had similar letters and once a phone call reminding us that they expected higher attendance. At the time, my daughter was off with nappy rash because she'd been sat in wet clothes all day. I'm sure you get this- it's bloody awful- but the school just couldn't get their head around how sore she can get and how there's no way she could sit still on a chair when she's fed raw.

I don't know whether there is any truth in what I said to them.... but I suggested to them that they may actually be dealing with a disability. (I was coming from the point of view that she needs reasonable adjustments to attend school, which may include less than 100% presenteeism). Dropping that into conversation was like waving a magic wand and their attitude to my daughter changed immediately. I don't think they were taking me, or her, seriously until that point.

I personally would have lost my shit at the comment that it 'must be serious if she's going to Alder Hey'. Never mind hospital visits. It's bloody serious when a little girl is struggling with continence at school.

Incidentally, get the continence service to visit school. Really push for this. DD has to drink a lot of water and is noticeably worse if she doesn't. They visited DD's school and weren't happy with the fluid intake of the whole class (she was in reception at the time). The continence service raised this with school and the drink policy for the whole school was reviewed and actually monitored properly afterwards. This helped DD tremendously but benefited a lot more kids as well.

And for you. It's a really complex and misunderstood situation to get your head around. I've also got 3 kids. The middle one should be potty training now and I'm scared to start in case the whole bloody roller coaster sets off again.

There is absolutely no legislation requiring him to send an attendance letter.

The 78% figure he is talking about is presumably your daughter's attendance, so she has 22% authorised absences but zero unauthorised absences. Focus on the unauthorised absences. From your point of view that is the only figure that matters. The authorities can only take legal action over unauthorised absences. They can't do anything about unauthorised absences. The school is worried about all absences because Ofsted look at the overall absence figures. But that is not your problem.

Given that the head is saying things that are demonstrably untrue I do not think it would be over the top to see if the SEND liaison officer would get involved. I also think weekfour may be right - if your daughter's medical issues are having a substantial and long term adverse effect on your daughter's ability to carry on with normal activities this could be classed as a disability. If this is a disability it may produce a different attitude from the school. They may not want Ofsted to think that they breach the Equality Act when dealing with a disabled child.

I can see both sides of this.
The school have a duty to 'encourage' students to attend.
You are dealing with a difficult situation as a parent, who needs to make a judgement on how your child is coping with their medical condition.
Has dd's consultant written a letter about how her condition affects her? It would be a good starting point to make sure the school are on side with you when she needs to be off. If you don't have such a thing, contact dd's consultant's secretary, explain and ask if they could write a letter to the school.
Then, contact the Senco at the school when you know they have the letter. Re-iterate how you know school is important, dd is doing well despite her difficulties, etc - but make the point that it isn't helpful to be chased when she is off. The school should put a plan in place as to what should happen if dd needs to be at home or needs to be sent home.
If she doesn't have an EHCP in place, or a care plan, insist on one.

If she doesn't have an EHCP in place, or a care plan, insist on one.

You can’t “insist” on an EHCP - that’s not how they work - but there’s no harm in asking the school to write a care plan with you.

No, we definitely didn't get a don't worry letter, irvineoneohone

You can apply direct to the local education authority for an EHCP.

I would focus on getting a care plan in place for now. EHCPs which are based on medical need are nortoriously hard to get and I think without a proper care plan in place before applying it would be close on impossible

Wow, weekfour yes they sound incredibly similar. Can I ask how old is your daughter?

A huge bunch of re the potty training. That would fill me with dress in only a way a mum experiencing this could feel.

Great idea about the disabling comment. I definitely do think they just think its a girl who gets distracted and wets. Obviously not the case and definitely not behavioural.

I've had to send her back today. She pooped 4 times in her pants yesterday and looks as white as a ghost. Husband said they need to see her like this. But I feel it's game playing on her behalf. The head needs to realise how mortified he would be if he pooped while taking assembly. And yes she gets extremely sore.

I've made sure I've put a note in her book stating as per discussion with head she must be changed three times and her water upped. I do know that the incontinence lady wasn't happy with the amount of water she was getting at school and wrote to the school. But definitely needs addressing again as I think they now realise the more she has the more she will wet for them.

Very good points, prh47bridge.

Yes, I am all for encouragement, mineofuselessinformation, and we have kept the school updated all the time. But this was bully boy tactics. Imagine a parent receiving this who didn't feel able to say 'hang on this isn't right!' Luckily with my ASD son, I've had to fight the professionals and be loud enough to be heard.

Thank you, Mrsmoastytoasty. Can get a EHCP for a medical issue though?

That's what I thought too. It seems so much easier in the statementing days

My DD had very similar issues at that age (several changes of clothes each day, wet and soiled), needing to wee several times within an hour or so etc. It was like her bladder got the hiccups or something. Her school were very supportive though.

Anyway, I wanted to say it got so much better around year 4/5. She's now in year 7 and although she still struggles with urgency and we really need to keep a careful watch on constipation, we haven't had any accidents at school for a while (since year 5???). She manages small leaks with pads which are like sanitary towels and fairly common for girls at that age in any case. Her school are great about letting her leave lessons (she has an exit card) so I would reassure your DD about that!

My DD didn't ever realise she needed to go - no "urge" at all until it was too late. As I say, this started to improve at around age 8 or 9.

Also, DD2 has had no issues whatsoever - if anything DD2 highlighted for me how extreme DD1's issues were.

I hope some positive stories will help you feel more hopeful about your DD long-term. I know how awful it was at the time and how worried we were about the social impact on her etc.

Good luck!

Thank you GiraffesCantDoMentalArithmetic, we've been told to stay away from pads and incontinence knickers due to mixed messages and her needing to feel wet. Even though they told us to wear pull-ups at night. Both specialists have said don't try and tackle until day sorted.

I do really appreciate your positive story. I really hope that will be our daughter.

You poor things, I’m so sorry you are going through added levels of misery caused by education.
Sadly it’s now all too common. Government targets and consequences.

You’d think logical common sense would prevail, but no.

We have been spared this at the moment as my daughter is signed off school long term by her Paediatrician. Even so, the emphasis is on ‘out of school’ based learning in a small hospital school. She is not able to access this either.

I’m on a good social media forum helping school refusers. I know you don’t fall into this category at all, but the advice to battle with the LA is the same.

Document accidents, leaks, medical advice, interventions, hospital appointments, recommendations and if the school are failing in their duty of care. Also your daughters state of health and mental state too. Try to keep a diary with dates to refer back to.

You can request an EHCP yourself and bypass the school. However, school will be asked to contribute to the plan.

Our local head of SENCO is superb, and often reduces timetables and puts in further measures, this is the head SENCO for the whole area, not the SENCO in school.

Should this continue, and is escalated to a fine, then threatened court, your medical evidence and documented accounts will usually prevent the LA taking it to court as they are the ones who have failed the child.

Sorry to be so bleak, but the recent changes to education and cuts to funding have resulted it a hugely unfair system to parents. They find themselves in a situation, for whatever the reason, whereby their child cannot attend school daily.

In all of this remember always,

You have done nothing wrong,

The physical and mental health of your child is paramount.

You are supporting your child in the best way you can,

Teachers are not medically trained and need to listen to those who give guidance.

It may or may not turn into a fight. I sincerely hope it doesn’t, but be prepared. Document everything. Times, dates, names, and action.

Best wishes

Just read you have an ASD son and have had to fight. That’s our issue at this time.

It’s exhausting.

The Education Health Care Plan is for for health issues or educational issues, or both.

My DD is 6. I’m glad that @GiraffesCantDoMentalArithmetic has shared a positive story too.

In the end, we’ve changed schools. We were at the point we couldn’t manage the 20 minute walk to school without storing for wild wee’s and the neighbours were starting to complain (dickheads- but that’s another thread). We’re now at the closest school to our house (we’ve moved) and had to go through an appeal process. New school knew exactly what they were getting and DD is now averaging one accident a day, which is a massive improvement. Water intake is monitored carefully at new school and I’ll swear that is what has made the biggest difference.

Old school wasn’t a bad school. They just weren’t set up to manage anything out of the ordinary. Now I look back, they were actually making the problem worse and once they get faecal impaction it takes a while to fix.

Thank you, movingtowardsthelight. That's a good idea about documenting. I noticed today that dd now has a brand new home school diary
I heard back from the SEND for the county today - but they are just saying arrange meetings with senco and school - or we could request EHCP not as much guidance as here to be honest. And I think now there is a clear break down with the school, and we need to look for alternatives.

I am going to send the email now. For the simple reason, it's something that needs addressing for others that may have to go through the same.

Yes, my DS is 13 and diagnosed ASD when he was 6 - he repeated reception and every year they tried to take that year back from us. It all came to head when they tried to send him to high school with his former year. There is no way he would have coped in ms highschool let alone a year (in his eyes and emotionally) earlier. Again we had a fight - lots of red tape, but luckily the school was fantastic (different one - we moved area) and we managed to get DS into special school - one that went straight through to high. And he is now flying.

Autism I am a dab hand at (just kidding of course) but dd I'm out of my depth.

This is what people don't understand, weekfour. Simple things like walking to places and any delays etc. Life is spent constantly looking for loo's and changing.

Yes, I think the lack of water has definitely aided to the faecal impaction. I think they find her a hindrance and are keen to show that to us - just the comments in her book as though they are 'we shouldn't be having to do this.' Yes, I understand all full well it's blumming hard work but don't just leave her soiled or too upset to ask to go.

It does sound like you have come on loads and it really does give me hope.

Have you looked at the ERIC website? There's a lot of useful information about toileting and schools.

Thanks, @MrsMoastyToasty, I will check that out. We haven't been given much guidance really. We've tried oxybutin but they thought she was getting UTI's because of this and she had a reaction to them. Flushing in the face. Quite severe. We've been told pull-ups for the night and no pads or incontinence knickers as sending mixed messages.

We've sent the email so will be dreading tomorrow. I just really don't need all this stress on top of all our other issues.

If the LA aren't being all that helpful, I would try one of the independent helplines like IPSEA/SOS!SEN/ACE/Contact a Family. You might also want to check the Head is familiar with supporting pupils with medical conditions particularly item 43 on pg 19 - Unacceptable practice.

For different reasons, but when DS1 had a home/school communication book and we were having a lot of issues with the school, I used to take a photo on my phone of the school's entries. Was useful down the line...!