DD (6) not keen on teacher; says she wants to leave school; anxious & crying; possible dyslexia?

[tartanterror]

DD says she "hates" school and her teacher. This year she has someone strict (a good teacher but maybe a bit Teutonic for her taste) and she's been crying and clingy at drop off. We've had this before from time to time but nothing like this. Apparently she's anxious in class and gets upset/cries over small things. Her self esteem seems to be at rock bottom and be a glass half empty sort of girl when things aren't going well.

She's always been this way but it's gone up a notch this year. The teacher has been telling me to keep things calm for her at home, but the fact is she is fine at home.... it's going to school that's making her anxious and tearful!

At home I noticed in YR she wasn't confident with maths so have done lots with her and it's now one of her favourites. She's always liked writing but her spelling is dodgy. I thought that would come in time and I got a Nessy subscription recently to help her/keep it fun - we have to wait to see how much it helps but she's enjoying it. In the back of my mind I'm aware she often reverses or mixes up letters when she writes. Yesterday I discovered that she can't write out the alphabet correctly! She missed out/didn't know/swapped around 6 letters. I was a bit shocked as she's been singing the alphabet since she was 3 no problem. Her reading is good so no problems there; spelling is the tricky area. However she seems to be at the top table so is still managing to work to a good level. She's not happy that children at other tables get to do colouring after their short pieces of writing - while she "just gets more writing"!

I'm wondering if she's had spelling/letter trouble throughout school and has managed to cover it up? Our efficient teacher this year is perhaps exposing her weaknesses and she's struggling with that? She doesn't like to make mistakes.

DD is very single minded and I need to squash this before I have full blown school refusal on my hands! I thought I'd see what small things ( e.g. Colouring) that would help her stay engaged and speak to the teacher, but she's not really able to tell me.

I've tried jollying, persuading and being strict, but she says she wants to "stay with me". She's always been a mummy's girl but this seems to be at a higher level now that she's moving up the school and teachers/TAs are doing less hugging.

Sorry about the long/humbly tale. Any tips for what I can do to help?

She's "not happy" that she is asked to do more work, seemingly to help her rather than colouring? I think you need to explain this to her and back up the teacher. Sorry, but I think you're babying her. Better for issues re: spelling to be addressed bow and six year old can't really call the shots on whether she goes to school or not. Sounds like the teacher is trying to help, suggest things at home but you may be facilitating some of the behaviour - do you agree with your dd, re: teacher being strict etc.?

It's normal to reverse letters at that age, and of course her spelling is still developing- she's in Y1. The alphabet (as in abcd) is not taught at that stage any more- they don't need to be able to write it out in order.

I think you sound a bit anxious? Is that maybe what school meant about keeping it calm for her at home?

This is a long term and children get tired. This can lead to more tearful behaviour and them seeing small problems as huge. My DS is like this at the moment too. I know it doesn't mean there are problems at school. When he gets going about his latest awful day (which hasn't been awful at all) I just say 'I know you're really tired, makes it hard doesn't it.. but you are doing so well... I'm super proud of you... lets decide what to have for dinner...'

Could you be overanalysing and your DD is just little and tired and learning to cope with a different style of teacher rather than developing SEN and about to become a school refuser?

Yes., it’s part of getting older that expectations increase.
It does sound like you are pandering to her and trying to deal with her emotions when what she needs it a non emotional response from you that enables her to learn to deal with her emotions.
Stop any persuasion, cajoling, negative talk about school or the teacher. Close down clingy behaviour with reminded she’s not a baby anymore. Bright and breezy approach and nice times after school.

Over the years, I have seen so many similar cases, I live very close to school. The child who has been happy in reception suddenly hates school in yr1. They need to adapt. They need to sit still. They need to listen. So much less freedom.
I think you need to work with teacher. Obviously need to keep an eye for specific reason if there are any, but otherwise, seems like so many kids go through this, imo.

Is she Y2 or Y1? If year 1 then I would expect spelling to be mostly wrong at this stage. If Y2 then it seems unusual that she's on the top table but not able to write out the alphabet. I have a 6yo in year 2 and I think getting the order of 2 or 3 letters within a word wrong regularly is probably worth investigating. Does your school do a dyslexia screening in reception? Could you afford a private screening test?

It’s quite normal for them to feel like this - it’s a big change from Reception class which is EYFS and free flow and learning through play; to Yr1 which is Key Stage 1, more formal and less play.
It’s completely normal for them to mix up letters at this age. She’s 6 FFS.
I think you need to chill out a little bit, stop buying subscriptions to do things at home and let her switch off a bit at the end of the school day. Not much fun to come home and have mum stressing that you can’t weite your letters properly and don’t seem very confident in Maths - again let me point out they are 6 and need to play after school.

Make it clear that school is non-negotiable though and stop over-thinking everything.

She probably doesn’t have SEN, she’s just 6. As others have said it’s a very long term and a big adjustment to a new year. Stop pandering to your child’s moaning; trust the teacher to do her job and stop second-guessing everything.

Lots of your post is about academic performance, yet the issue is primarily one of anxiety, I think you need to start purely focusing on the anxiety, and forget about academic performance, just in case the anxiety is coming from what she sees as academic demands. She can see she's doing well from her relative position in class, but you are getting her to do more work at home.

And yes, you should discuss the anxiety with the teachers, tell them her feedback - more writing when others are doing stuff that she would like to do 'cos it's fun.

Singing the alphabet is very different to actually knowing it.
Dd2 learnt to sing the alphabet when she was under 2yo as dd1 was doing it at school.
One day she asked me what an "el-em--en-no-pea" was.

Crumbs1
"Stop any persuasion, cajoling, negative talk about school or the teacher. Close down clingy behaviour with reminded she’s not a baby anymore. Bright and breezy approach and nice times after school"

Omg that's awful, my ds wasn't diagnosed with autism till 8 (irrelevant I know) But he had a teacher who he spoke ill of and like this child became tearful and upset in school. Every day was a struggle but at home he was completely different and we put it down to his difficulties. But no the teacher was a MONSTER! By suggesting things are handled differently at home she placing the issues of the Dd into the home and not addressing them in school. What happened to kids being supported and encouraged by teachers? A little one to one in school with reward charts etc. The dc obviously has an issue and teacher isn't addressing it.

My ds hated this teacher to the point that he would vomit going to school. It reached a head when knowing he was assessed for asd and having his own quiet corner etc, she sent him to the head because during a card game with another child a playing card got ripped. - a piece of cardboard ffs. She knew the other child was guilty but still sent them both to the head because "she had to get an admission of guilt, I had to know the truth". He was 7 and hysterical. School had to send out for ice cream to get him to calm down. My DH tore strips off her day, reduced the hard nosed witch with her playground shaming ways (liked to address kids faults to their parents in front of other parents) and moved him to what we previously considered a hick school (to our shame) where he thrived, blossomed and became a completely different school child.

It's easy to blame the child but if she had no issues with clinginess etc before encountering the teacher, I'd be looking there.

World, you sound delightful. They are horrible teachers just like there are horrible people everywhere. But you have no idea whether this applies in this situation. Your DH tore strips off the teacher? Great, mature example to be setting to your child.

Thanks. We've tried to avoid "babying", staying positive and being firm ... It is clearly the best first step, but it's not really working? how long do you give that sort of approach if it's not working?

She's Y2 and nearly 7. There is dyslexia in the family. DD is my 2nd child at the school so this isn't first time nerves.

I've probably lost faith in them. We had the same teacher with DS and her firm approach created a bit of a breakdown (started ripping his clothes, meltdowns at home, eating problems - it was a terrible time) and our parenting was called into question. They said it wasn't SEN and I worked with the teacher/took advice but things got worse... Eventually I sought help outside school and the professionals agreed..... he now has an EHCP. I now trust my instincts a lot more than I used to and something is niggling about DD.

This teacher is good - but puts pressure on her pupils to work hard whatever their level. She does wonders with childre Who respond to behavioural techniques but isn't so good with hard-wired difficulties. That means that any problems do rise to the surface quickly. IMO This is good because then they can be dealt with.... Unfortunately my experience has been that it's me who then has to resolve these problems.

Hence using Nessy once a week as a treat to see whether dyslexia could be behind her disintegrating confidence. It's more Assessment than hot housing! A friend's son in Y4 at the school tests positive in dyslexia screening (his parents paid) but school aren't dealing with it. I can't let this drag on for 2 years or more.

Hopefully this explains the apparent anxiety in my OP.

There’s nothing you’ve said that suggests dyslexia.
You need to talk to the teacher and find out if there are problems in class and work together to support your child.

DS1 had a terrible term once (we'd moved schools). The teacher and him just didn't get on. He went from an enthusiastic child, participating in class, eager to go in, to tearful, low self-esteem, and once, when I'd gone in to have a meeting around it all, he just burst into heartbreaking sobs when he saw me in the playground because it was all just too much for him and he was so unhappy. He has bad handwriting (dyspraxic) and some of her techniques were leading to the class bullying him over it, and she did nothing about it but blame him (repeated conferences with her, she kept pushing it entirely on him - he was bloody 6)

The next term, he had a new teacher, and it was night and day. Where the old teacher said 'will not complete complete work without constant reminders' the new teacher said 'with some reminders, consistently completes work'

It was literally just a small change in attitude on the part of the teacher, and it made all the difference, everything was sunny again, he was happy, confident (apart from the handwriting, but we were working with the school on that). Is the school big enough that there are two classes in her year group and she could switch?

6 is way too young to put such a high demand on spelling. I didn't start learning the alphabet until I was 6. My mom practiced a lot with me at home (she did not keep it fun btw) and I hated it. With in a few weeks practicing the alphabet bored me to tears and I always wanted to do something else.

I have always loved to read. Over the years my spelling improved a lot, but it took time (years) and it got better when the pressure was off.

I think your daughter's teacher is too strict and her strength maybe in math, not writing. This is perfectly okay. You can't be good at everything. Maybe your DD can be placed in a different class with a different teacher. Otherwise be prepared to swap schools.

Children should not have their innate curiosity for learning stomped out of them, especially not at such a young age.

“Where the old teacher said 'will not complete complete work without constant reminders' the new teacher said 'with some reminders, consistently completes work'
^*
It was literally just a small change in attitude on the part of the teacher,^”* or a child being a year older and more mature

6 is way too young to put such a high demand on spelling. I didn't start learning the alphabet until I was 6. My mom practiced a lot with me at home (she did not keep it fun btw) and I hated it. With in a few weeks practicing the alphabet bored me to tears and I always wanted to do something else.

Not according to the National Curriculum. (Incidentally, it's 'practised' and 'practising'. Only relevant because we're discussing spelling though, sorry.)

My 15 yr old learned to read easily but spelling was another matter. With practice she mastered spelling tests but it wasn't until year 6 that a teacher picked up on the need for her to spell better in written work - despite my concerns. She's bright to the extent of being on an academic scholarship, 9s predicted for GCSEs etc. Her father may have been much the same. Interestingly her brother found spellings instinctive and easy as did I.

I'd agree that year 2 is a good point to try to help establish effective spelling habits. Don't worry about the alphabet per se, but maybe focus on letter groups that can be confused. Support learning school spellings lists with enough (but not too much!) copying and rewriting, and try to make extra stuff easy enough to reinforce what she can do and keep it positive.

If she is a perfectionist, worrier type then she may need to be explicitly told about things that she is doing well, and is good at - as at this age any child may be overemphasising the things that aren't going so well.

Good luck.

@Feenie

English is my second language and I mostly follow US writing conventions, since that is what I have been expose to the most while learning English.

I'd really like to hear from parents who have managed to resolve similar issues for their DC.

I'm not expecting perfect spelling - I'm interested to know what is expected for Y2. There is something going on with her spelling, and it's causing her to be anxious, so I would like to understand.

She was so upset about going to school today that she broke down in tears during a dance class she loves at the weekend.

Thinking about it, the class teacher had said she was planning to take a no nonsense approach a couple of weeks ago. I was fine that she wanted to try that as that approach tends to work for me. But now it looks like that might be backfiring quite badly..... In hindsight this particular teacher's no nonsense approach has shaken grown adults, so maybe its gone further than I expected. I better check.

In the meantime - any other ideas about how to work out what the underlying confidence problem is here? The teacher reverting to a softer approach is presumably not going to entirely fix this...

my daughter is in year 2 and another struggling with spellings

She is in the top groups for everything but defiantly struggles with her spellings.. we are re looking at phase 3,4 and 5 phonics just to make sure everything is secure and just re going over spellings from a few weeks ago to make sure she isnt forgetting them

Have you tried Squeebles for spelling? They can practice spelling and then play some games.

Whenever people start talking abut their child's poor spelling I start wondering exactly how spelling is being taught. Although it should be taught alongside learning to read using children's phonic knowledge, it very often isn't, or, the 'phonics' bit is discontinued.

So i'd be interested to know just how the OP's DD was taught to spell and what strategies the school recommends for learning spellings.

I had a look at Nessie when I was working with KS3 children but I don't think that any spelling programme that encourages the use of letter names and keyboarding is particularly helpful. Child needs to be analysing the sounds in a word and handwriting the letters that spell each sound.

Thanks for the replies.
We started with a bit of squeebles last year after I saw it mentioned on MN. But as it's not interactive it didn't help me assess DD's level so we didn't use it much

We got Nessy just before half term and she's done sessions roughly once a week. So not long enough to know how it's going really. I'll have to look more closely at it. I could have sworn it was using phonic sounds.... I'll check more closely. I preferred this over squeebles as it tested and taught according to the child's ability rather than set lists.... there's also a parent dashboard that I might be able to interpret at some point

I've also decided to get her eyes checked. It's probably a couple of years since she had one and we may be overdue.

I'll have to look more closely at it. I could have sworn it was using phonic sounds....

It may well be, but, unless she's a good touch typist, ' 'hunt and peck' for letters on the keyboard really doesn't do anything to help secure the spellings in memory. Good spelling has a strong element of kinaesthetic (muscle) memory which is best exploited by *handwriting' each sound spelling and, ideally, saying each sound as she writes the letters which spell it. Every word has a unique pattern and 'feel' to it which helps its spelling to become automatic when it's been written a number of times. You just can't reproduce this automaticity with a keyboard unless you're already a good speller and a good touch typist.

I'd still be interested to know what advice the schools gives on learning spellings..

I would reign right back on all the additional stuff you’re doing to help spelling etc. This will send the message that somehow she is failing, no matter how you play it up.

Focus on reading with her, having lots of books for fun, exposing her to loads of vocab and just let her write if she wants to. Forget the hot Housing. You might think it helps but honestly, I don’t think it does. There are other ways to get children to learn spelling and I don’t think computer programmes etcare the way. There’s no evidence that this will help.

Just give her a break.