Tips on how to handle a difficult school situation

[WhatDoIDoAboutThisNow]

Week four of year 5.

DS is a nice child (other teachers have commented on this). He and a group of friends were in trouble last week for misbehaving in class. Reading between the lines, and talking to other parents, it sounds more like normal 9-year-old boisterousness, coupled with an inexperienced teacher with poor classroom management skills (I used to be in education myself). The head of year has stepped in to back the teacher up.

There were also accusations of bullying, which in one instance involved two children who were good friends - so of course the parents of the "bully" contacted the other parents, only to find the incident hadn't actually happened.

The teacher's turn things round strategy involves among other things, a star chart for good behaviour. But unfortunately she seems also to have decided that this group are "the bad kids" so it feels like nothing they can do will turn things round.

She also has other slightly odd classroom practices, like getting the kids to read the results of their spelling tests out loud rather than coming round to make a note of them privately. This led to the two children with dyslexia being laughed at for "only getting 3". The thing was, they had a different test, with only three questions on it.

I've talked to other parents, and on a rough head count, she's alienated 1/4 of the parents in the class - and that's only the ones I know about.

So the question is, what do I do? How do I address this with the head of year/head teacher? It feels like her classroom management is poor and some of her teaching practises are not the most constructive ones she could choose.

I want to try to turn this round diplomatically if I can but I'm really at a loss as to how to tackle it.

Go to her claiming that your son is rather unclear about what he should be doing to turn things around. Get her to explain it to you and him in black and white. It could be that she is unclear herself as to what she expects, so putting it clearly into words what they should and should not be doing may help her to realise if anything is contradictory or double-standard, unrealistic, deconstructive or downright confusing.
Perhaps another mother could raise the issue about spelling test scores.

Thanks. I think lack of clarity about expectations is certainly part of it. When she called me in to talk to her, she said my son was being distracted. I said this had been an issue in previous classes and teachers had handled it by moving him closer to the front to positions where he was less likely to be distracted. She said she'd told the class they had to choose more sensible seats the next day! Leaving it up to them seemed like a strange strategy, and when I quizzed DS, he'd obviously totally misunderstood and thought he was to stay where he was. The net upshot was that he moved by one seat.

But I'll have another go this week and see if I can get a clearer steer from her on what DS is meant to be doing.

I don't like the sound of OP tbh, it sound like your dc's problem is all because of inexperienced teacher.
Yes 9 year olds sometimes misbehave.(Mine is 9, so I know that.)
It's part of growing up.
But when you start blaming everything others for your ds misbehaving, I think I feel a bit about it. Sorry not helpful at all.

Not sure what to make of that post, irvine - are you saying I'm blaming my son's bad behaviour on the teacher, or that the teacher is misreading his normal 9 year old behaviour as something worse?

I don't think I'm being PFB about him. He's never been in trouble before, other teachers have consistently said what a nice child he is. And he's not the only child in trouble with this teacher - a group of other children (whom I've known since reception age, and who are also all nice kids) seem to be in trouble too, all of a sudden, out of the blue. Which is why I'm reading the situation as an inexperienced teacher who's out of her depth, and why I'm asking for advice on how to raise it with school in a constructive way.

Rather than bitching about the teacher to other parents perhaps complain about any specific treatment of DS you're unhappy with.

These are my friends, Loopy. I'm not "bitching", I'm discussing my concerns with friends who turn out to be in the same position (both the conversations I've had about this have actually been instigated by the other parents).

"it sounds more like normal 9-year-old boisterousness, coupled with an inexperienced teacher with poor classroom management skills"

I just didn't like the fact you are stating your dc's behaviour as "normal", while bringing down the teacher as not good enough.

Ah, so you are saying that I'm being PFB and my child is the one at fault.

Okay, so how do I turn things round? And how do I get to the bottom of why DS has suddenly gone from being a well behaved child (like I say, previous teachers have always commented on this) to misbehaving?

I don't know. You haven't stated what he was in trouble for.
All my ds's past teachers has always said my ds was very well behaved. One actually said he was a great role model for others. Still, he get into trouble sometimes for chatting in class, etc. He is 9, so I am aware of that, he is not perfect.

What did you do in education?

It does sound a bit like you are shitstirring.

He's growing up! And finding his feet in the world - but not always in the right way. You need to stop blaming the teacher and nip it in the bud.

Even nice children will misbehave at some point. Everyone has always said how nice he is which is why you can't bring yourself to believe that his boisterous misbehaviour with a little group of his peers (who indeed may have persuaded him to join in with something he wouldn't initiated).

Once you realise that then perhaps supporting the teacher would be more productive than talking to your friends to see how you can bring the teacher down.

As another poster said ask the teacher to clarify what she wants DS to do to turn things round.

Maybe DS hasn't adjusted his behaviour if you (his Mum) is saying that what he is doing is ok.

It sounds conspiratorial to be talking to other parents about the teacher's inexperience and apparent lack of classroom management. Year 5 children typically hear what they choose and push the boundaries. Your ds is no different and you really need to reinforce the school's stance rather than minimise it.

Oh give the OP a break.

we had this with the parallel class to dd2s in year 4.
very quickly the relationship between parents and teacher got worse and worse, and after a while it had broken down, so on the playground, every time the teacher did anything 30 parents nit picked over it, loads of cmoplaints etc.

I know that is NOT what you are doing OP, but when an inexperienced teacher gets off on bad footing with parents it can easily disintegrate.

So as to what you do, please, first, talk to the other parents in a positive way. Talk about how you can help and support. Don't let this become a damn the teacher session. Everyone has to start somewhere.

Talk to teacher, ask what your ds can do to get his record straight. Drop in that he has is usually sensible and he is keen to work well for her. Ask her if she could please be more specific about where he is to sit. Gently drop into conversation that Mrs X last year gave them set places which seemed to work to spread them out a bit, when they were distracting each other.

Try to use the positive sandwihc approach.
Mrs Y - thank you for x, ds is enjyng that (positive)
just wondering about behaviour etc (contrictive criticism)
we are looking forward to the tudor topic, sounds great and ds loves history (positve thing to finish on)

You need to speak to the teacher first, not other parents

What is your son doing "wrong"

How does teacher expect to see him improve?

Who instigated the bullying claim,how did school deal with it, what was the outcome and what, if any, was your son's involvement.

If your son is easily distracted / boisterous, and has been throughout school as other class teachers have moved him, it may be this teacher isn't eanting to.move him and expects to see him / parents address behaviour rather than avoid it by rearranging seating.

You could ask teacher to explain practices you don't understand (but whether she chooses to 'justify' them to you is her choice. Perhaps mention reading spelling scores and how your ds mentioned children with shorter tests were allegedly being laughed and upset.

However, it may be he is struggling with transition to a new year where more work, independence and concentration is expected and the teacher isn't going to be as gentle as previous years.

Curious what your rolecin education was as to how you feel it's influenced how you judge the teacher,?

Ds changed from a beautifully behaved child to a "distracted" child around P6(Yr5), it was always never instigated by him , always his friends started chatting first and what was he meant to to? Ignore them? Teachers seem to suddenly expect more of them in Yr 5 at the same time as the pupils are starting to push the boundaries a little and while their parents still think they are perfect angels.

It is impossible for the teacher to move every child away from those that are distracting others, as they all do it including your ds, just some more than others. I think you should concentrate on your own ds and support the teacher, at Yr 6 is a good time for him to develop skills to learn to ignore the distractions unless they are serious (hitting etc). He won't be able to be moved all the time during the rest of his school years.

The spelling test thing doesn't sound good, maybe inexperience on the teachers part and after the reaction she got in the class she won't do it again. I would let that lie unless it is ongoing. You do sound like a very critical set of parents, just remember promoting negatively towards a teacher by discussing only their mistakes is contagious, can get blown out of proportion and does no one any favours especially the children, either speak positively or keep your own counsel and if you have issues with your ds that are worth raising speak to the teacher privately.

Seriously, I'm not some sort of let it all hang out parent - I've always stressed thinking of others and had a zero tolerance policy for anything hurtful/anything that upsets other people. I also backed up the teacher at home - after the incident, DS lost screen time and had to do extra chores. I have stressed that he is not to chat to his friends in class- save that for break time. And also that he is to sit in his seat at all times.

The incident seems to have been standing up/not sitting down when told, and a group of them did seem involved. The bullying I don't know about - this was another child.

The issue for me now seems to be how to turn DS's behaviour round and how to stop him internalising the message that "I'm one of the naughty kids". The teacher has instituted a star system for good behaviour, and by the end of the week, ds was one of 3 or 4 children not to have got one - so obviously things are still going wrong (despite DS saying he's really trying, obviously what he thinks is good behaviour and what the teacher thinks is good behaviour are not the same thing.)

Also, the gossiping to other parents really isn't gossiping - it is more "I got called into school", "oh, so did I..." and a quick compare of notes, which left us thinking that in previous years teachers would not have reacted so seriously to this behaviour - though maybe, as pp have said, it's the move up to year 5.

(I taught in adult education - so although classroom management is obviously very different from primary children, it's still there as an issue. And the whole question of positive reinforcement versus telling the students what they have done wrong is still there.)

Maybe the teacher is new and inexperienced but maybe the boys are taking the mick with it? Especially if parents tell them the teacher is new etc.

So you think the teacher sees him as a bad kid after just one week? A bit soon to be making that judgement, I think.

Not following instructions is defiant and I would haul him up on that as a class teacher. Doesnt matter how nice he has been before - any child can misbehave and needs to be reined in.

Drop into the teacher at some point, ask has his behaviour improved (and listen to what you are told, don't brush it off as 9 year old silliness), and say you've been checking with him on his daily behaviour so you hope teacher sees an improvement in how he is trying.

Actually at around that age I start to allow children to select a partner to work with - and I very much emphasise that they need to make sensible choices. It's good training for them I feel.

Yes, that was very much my take on the incident - young and inexperienced, and the children (both sexes) played up (I remember similar things happening in class in my school days with supply teachers/student teachers).

I do not talk down the teacher's behaviour within hearing of DS, because I know how impressionable children are. But I am worried by the fact that this whole thing seems to have sucked all the joy out of school. DS just comes home every day stressed out that he hasn't been the one to get a star, he feels like he's failing, he doesn't know what the teacher expects of him.

Go in and see the teacher she doesn’t sound great. There are good and bad teachers you know your son.

I think it's fine to ask them to sit with people that they will work well with in year five.

He's found concentrating hard in the past as previous teachers have had to move him.

That hasn't worked as he's still not doing what he is supposed to be. Perhaps this teachers idea of putting the responsibility on to the children will work. Unlike the strategies of the previous teachers.

So, trying to distill the thread into action points:

Go and talk to the teacher.
Say I've been trying to reinforce her message at home, asking him about behaviour every day and stressing what's expected of him (don't chat to your friends in class time, don't bob up and down and leave your seat) - all of which I have been doing.
Ask whether his behaviour has improved.
Check up exactly what's expected of him.
Pick out something (feeback in homework book, comments he's made to me, anything I can think of really) that delivers something positive back to her.

Sounds like you're stirring up shit with the other parents. I'd imagine when you used to work in education you'd have disliked the parents talking behind your back. Do the right thing and question things by the correct channels. I'm a teacher and I'd be devestated if I knew parents were openly talking about me on very public forums. I would, however, be perfectly happy to have a professional face to face conversation about any incident should a parent be unhappy. You've done the wrong thing here.

No, really not shit-stirring. Parents do know each other socially as friends you know - and of course we compare notes. I have not instigated any of these conversations. And mumsnet is an anonymous forum, for heaven's sake. There's nothing I've posted here which could pin down which school of thousands across the UK I'm talking about, nor is the incident (year 5 children misbehave in class) exactly unique.

And the tag line is "for parents" not "for teachers". Of course parents can ask about how to handle things in school. You seem unduly defensive. FWIW back when I taught, I had the occasional bit of negative feedback from the odd disgruntled student - you just sucked it up, because it was outweighed by the positive feedback. If more than half your feedback is negative, on the other hand...