KS1 results

[dazedandconfused12]

As the username says I am feeling dazed and confused... Please anti SATS people don't flame me .. I didn't write them .. I'm just trying to understand what the results mean.

DS1 is in year 2. Last term we got a school report and for maths and english subjects he had the end of year goals as two 'GDS' (working at greater depth) and one 'EXS' (working at the expected standard). Son is in all the top groups in his class, he is a vociferous reader and good at maths so this seemed reasonable (we know his spelling could be better).

However we have just been to parents evening. Outcome post SATS is he got 1 GDS for Reading and EXS for maths and spelling/grammar.

Now I know lots of people will say why do you care, he is only 7 etc etc. Fine. But we do care and what I don't understand is how could the prediction last term have been so 'out'. Did the KS1 SATS goalposts change since last term? The parents evening is only 8 minutes so there was no time for further discussion.

For reading he got test score 108 (GDS)
Maths 106 (EXS)
English (splg and grammar) 102 (EXS)

Has anyone (teacher / parent) seen their results and has there been some change since last term?

Many thanks.

I didn't give GDS to anyone who scored below 110 on the SATS papers. That is the 'goalpost' for KS2.
The pass mark was raised in reading since last year and was lowered in maths. No idea RE the SPAG test. I didn't sit my class for it as it's a nonsense paper that tells me nothing about my children's writing.

"For reading he got test score 108 (GDS)
^Maths 106 (EXS)
English (splg and grammar) 102 (EXS)^"

Im afraid this is the school's own system as there isn't a greater depth mark in KS1

The children get scores out of a number for each paper (e.g. /25, /40). This converts to a "scaled score" with the required scaled score for working at expected level being 100. These DID change for the 2017 papers (if I recall correctly, maths went down by 1 actual mark on the paper and reading went up by 3). So yes, it is possible that they predicted based on the 2016 conversions and then were out.

HOWEVER - KS1 assessment is still teacher assessment based. It shouldn't be the case that their end of year assessment determines if they are working at greater depth. I do know some schools who set themselves at internal benchmark (e.g. We want all the GDS children to get at least 110 as a scaled score). If it bothers you, request a follow up meeting with the teacher.

I'm not a teacher so can't go into the technicalities, but DD's teacher last term said that his assessment carried more weight, as he knows the child's overall progress, so not to worry about the SATS (we haven't had the results as yet, in fact I didn't even know when Dd had done them). Her school don't think year two SATS are worth a damn, though.

So if your child's end of year teacher assessment is what you'd expect I wouldn't worry.

Thank you for your speedy responses. I did not know there was not an official 'hurdle' for GDS but I expect 110 would be reasonable - and that helps me to see it in context.

Many thanks

The teacher assessment is reported the test results aren't

I requested the test results ;-)

Overall I'm demoralised I have to say. What I don't get is he is 'top' set at our school but to be honest our school's results are not very impressive (last year 25% passed KS2 SATS).

We already had our reservations about the school and I'm afraid this just makes us feel worse about it :-(

I think you might be being a bit harsh on the assessment. Are the results really 'so far out'? I don't think there's much difference between the two sets of results.

Especially if you consider that the assessment isn't best fit. There could be very little difference between a GDS and a child working at the expected standard.

Hi op,

Top scaled score is 115 www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/617278/2017_KS1_Scaled_score_conversion_tables.pdf

Obviously at this young age it cannot all be about the sat test, they could easily have an off day or tricky test. The teaching assessment should be key here. This is the framework I think they use for greater depth and exs www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/576179/2017_interim_teacher_assessment_frameworks_at_the_end_of_key_stage_1_V2_PDFa.pdf

Why are you demoralised? I don't unserstand. He has good scores and a good report. He is only 7. I'm a teacher and purposely didn't request the scores!!

it's not like the old system so "greater depth" requires a lot of hoop jumping. I'd not place too much weight on it and place more weight on progress on the year, teachers view, child's happiness!

I'm really surprised it would put you off the sxhool.

And the prediction didn't seem out to me. They said he was doing well in all 3 subjects and he has! So many people are "working towards" with the new govt curriculum. Greater depth seems to vary from school to school and can require far too much hoop jumping.

please don't put pressure on your 7 year old!

Do look at the interim framework, dazed. In order to get GD for maths, a LOT of evidence is needed for different skills/knowledge that they have mastered e.g. Tell the time to the nearest 5 minutes, reason about addition, work out divisions with remainders. Children need to meet every single one to get GD, it isn't best fit.

The framework hasn't changed so the teacher should have had a good idea last term of he would get GD, but you can see how there might have been one of two things that didn't quite click for him.

It looks like OP's DS only 'passed' the writing by 2 points. Given he is in top sets is this not a surprise? Should this not have been flagged to the OP by the teacher sooner?
What is the range of scores for ks1 for top set groups? It must be higher than 102?

Bit it's not a proper test but a random govt imposed test that most teachers see as a it pointless.

It's far better to see how a child is doing over the year (hence teacher assesments) than how they perform at just 7 years old in a test under controlled conditions which is ridiculous.

Quibbling over whether they missed a few marks is one if the reasons SATS at 7 is so unhelpful. The child could have been daydreaming, picking his nose, bored, wondering why they aren't allowed to talk, wanting to go and play... not seeing how vitally important his parent finds how he performs in those 30minutes.

I can understand why the OP is a bit confused.
The SATs overall results which are reported are based on teacher assessment with the test results taken into account.
The teachers said he was on track for GD in 2 areas. Seeing as the reported level is based in teacher assessment which the teachers will know and has no uncertainty like test results, you would expect theboutcomemto be what the teacher predicted.
In this case, the outcome is lower. I think this is why OP is confused.

OP I think that this is the question to ask the school. Yes, people in here think you are being pushy and he's only 7 and doing well etc etc....but you want to understand why he has been graded as expecting when you were led to believe he would be getting greater depth. It's a reasonable question and the school should be able to answer it. Whether the explanation is adequate or satisfies you is another thing, but for your own peace of mind and understanding, I would ask.

Seeing as the reported level is based in teacher assessment which the teachers will know and has no uncertainty like test results, you would expect them to be what the teacher predicted.

The predictions were made a term ahead though. The teacher could easily have thought 'well, little Johnny has achieved all the GD targets except x, y,z and we've got a term left, so that should be achievable '. Only it turns out that even after several lessons and a bit of intervention work, little Johnny just cannot grasp target z. Therefore he cannot be judged as GD.

But if z were important why would the teacher not flag it to the OP? So they could work on it?

But z might not be important.

It might be an entirely pointless and arbitrary box to tick exclamation sentences. Not having met the prediction set last term doesn't mean the OPs DS hasn't made good progress since then. He might have made excellent progress but not just in one specific objective.

Obviously it would be better if the DfE hadn't fucked up the assessment system, but unfortunately they did.

"But if z were important why would the teacher not flag it to the OP?" Quite simply because at the time the discussion took place z hadn't been taught so until it was the teacher wouldn't know they would find it difficult.

Last term the child would have covered 2/3 of the curriculum content and was secure in the final term the remain 1/3 would be taught and the child wasn't secure.

I do feel cheesed off. We've been to all the parents evenings (and more), we've practised our spellings weekly and 9/10 he gets them all right. The school doesn't set homework. DS really likes the teacher. However I just don't feel the teacher has been straight with us.
I don't know what more we could have done at home, his mental arithmetic is excellent (for his age). DS is under the impression he did brilliantly in the SATS and I don't have the heart to tell him differently.... some of the other boys in DS' group did far better than him it turns out.

Why would you need to tell him differently?

You seem way to focused on the Sats and academic ability in general. Support his learning of course but don't allow yourself to become obsessed

We've had the same teacher for 2 years and I've done by best to get on with her but I think if she knew his spelling was that bad she could have raised it in all the times I was her?
We have another child who will soon be in her class so I'm not really looking forward to going through this loop again.
DS is very happy, bright and keen to learn and I don't want to stifle that in any way. I'm just frustrated that the teacher hasn't been very transparent with us. I thought parents evening was meant to be no surprises. We've gone from top spelling g group and getting them right ever week to only just passing the writing sats.

We've gone from top spelling g group and getting them right ever week to only just passing the writing sats.

Have you looked at the interim framework that was linked earlier in the thread? Please do, it is easy to understand and makes it very clear just how much children have to achieve to be awarded GD.

For writing, the child needs to be joining their handwriting in 'most' of their written work. Spellings need to be consistently good, not in spelling tests but in independent writing, including the use of suffixes such as -ful, -less, -ment, -ness. Not easy words for a 7 year old to include and spell independently. His spelling probably isn't 'that bad'.

I really think you need to stop worrying about SATs levels so much and look at your child and his work. Take a look at his English book- is he producing imaginative, well-thought out pieces of writing with good punctuation and spelling s? Is he enjoying learning? Does he work hard and listen carefully to the teacher? Those are the things that matter at the age of 7.

9/10 he gets them all right

So this was the 1/10 time he didn't. Brie up thread mentioned the myriad of reasons why a child might not perform as expected on the day of the test. This is exactly why DD's teacher made it clear that his assessment is what counts.

Anyway, aren't year two SATS being ditched? So you won't have to go through this with your younger child anyway.