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Resources for phonics

102 replies

Arkadia · 28/04/2017 19:39

Hi,

Some time ago I read a thread in here about a child who could read, but would fail a phonics test. After giving it some thought I have come to realise that my DD1 is exactly in this situation. She reads pretty well and with a lot of expression, however when she comes across a word she doesn't know, she simply cannot decode it.

She does not know her phonics.

She is now P3 (Y2) and really loves reading, but she reads like me... When I come across a word I don't know , I need to look it up, unless it is very easy; I can't decode words and I look at them as a whole, a bit as if they were ideograms (I was never thought phonics and English is not my first language, but my vocabulary is very good by any standard, so I get by easily enough).

So, my question is: is there any resource I can use to help her improve her/my knowledge of phonics? It cannot be too "small children oriented", otherwise she will feel belittled.
On top of that I hope that a better knowledge of phonics will help her with her spelling which is absolutely appalling.

Interestingly enough, although I have been following what my kids have been doing at school, I never managed to learn phonics. Perhaps because I've never really seen the point of it. Instead DD2 has an instinctive understanding of phonics, so, though not so expressive, she can easily read words she does not know or understand (so, often when she is reading, I have to stop her to ask if she knows the meaning of a certain word...)

And yes, for the teacher everything is hunky-dory...

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mrz · 03/05/2017 17:03

"you would have ch-ai-r." Chair us two sounds /ch/ and /air/

" I am familiar with the phonetic alphabet". It isn't the phonetic alphabet

"So this morning I was trying to do that with "journey" with DD" journey is four sounds /j/ /er/ /n/ /ee/ (our is the spelling for the sound /er/ and ey is the spelling for the sound /ee/ in this word)

Feenie · 03/05/2017 17:57

That's as an altrenative spelling for /er/, as in:

www.spelfabet.com.au/spelling-lists/sorted-by-sound/er/our-as-in-journal/

Feenie · 03/05/2017 17:58

alternative

Arkadia · 03/05/2017 18:13

What do you mean it is not the phonetic alphabet? That's the alphabet you would find in a dictionary to help you make sense of the words.

In any case, I was having a look at the chart you linked me the other day, mrz, and they have "our" down in the /er/ box, but they have words like "turn" and "colour" that to me don't rhyme at all. I am really confused.

In any case #2, I have just asked DD2 how to do that exercise and she confirmed that she is asked to do ch-ai-r and sh-a-ll-ow (these are the examples I saw first hand when I was in the classroom.

In any case #3, we have done the last part of the sats papers and DD1 found it easy. More interestingly, DD2 found it difficult (she answered only a handful of questions), but over all she still scored enough to reach the expected level and just a shade below the national average.

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spanieleyes · 03/05/2017 18:20

The reason she is allowed to do ch-ai-r is because she is not being taught phonics properly! As mrz said, chair is ch-air

Arkadia · 03/05/2017 18:24

What can I do... this is what I saw she did in class (and taught me...)

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user789653241 · 03/05/2017 18:29

I would hire a tutor in your position, seems like you could be confusing her even further.

gluteustothemaximus · 03/05/2017 18:34

Jolly phonics worked for us. DD can read anything, no matter what, she can decode using phonics.

There's a DVD, good website, great workbooks, and a brilliant app.

Good luck x

MrsWhiteWash · 03/05/2017 19:24

What can I do... this is what I saw she did in class (and taught me...)

Do something like dancing bears - has flash cards - with examples on the back I seem to remember - has digraphs and triagraph which you do at start so child can recognise very quickly the sound they make. It has clear instructions and a book to work through and build up phonic knowledge.

I wasn't taught phonics - and I have/had enough problems with reading and spelling to get diagnosed as dyslexic. Unfortunately I was only adult around to help them.

I did do jolly phonics at home and their pre-school did the songs and letter sounds. So they started school in a good place - only for their school to confuse them and push looking at pictures and guessing.

Ten minutes a day dancing bears and pushing back on the bad techniques school was teaching - and they did get phonics though we then had to move on to spelling problems.

mrz · 03/05/2017 19:29

"What do you mean it is not the phonetic alphabet? That's the alphabet you would find in a dictionary to help you make sense of the words"
Phonics doesn't use the phonetic alphabet

mrz · 03/05/2017 19:30

"but they have words like "turn" and "colour" that to me don't rhyme at all" why would they need to rhyme?

mrz · 03/05/2017 19:33

Shallow is /sh/ /a/ /l/ /oe/ spelt sh - a- lol-ow

cantkeepawayforever · 03/05/2017 19:56

-ur- in turn and -our at the end of colour sound the same in my accent (-er-) hence they are in the same part of the chart for that sound.

If those parts of the word sound different in your accent, what phonic sounds DO they sound like?

mrz · 03/05/2017 20:04

In my accent (and the accent of my class) the our is a Schwa sound which is why phonics isn't accent dependent and you need to think about the sounds you hear when you say the word

Arkadia · 03/05/2017 22:13

Well to me "colour" is /'kʌlə/, while "journey" is /'dʒɜ:nɪ/
These two "our" groups are pronounced completely differently, If anything in "colour" the "our" group is a schwa, while in "journey" it isn't, so I don't see how these words can fall into the same category.
"colour" is the same as "collar", while "journey" is the same as "urn", "turn", "burn", etc.

Going to look at Dancing bears now :D

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Arkadia · 03/05/2017 22:26

Gosh... it isn't cheap, is it.
Well, tomorrow morning we'll try the test since there is no school.

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mrz · 04/05/2017 05:31

So you're say colour with a schwa sound at the end the same as I do (and the children I teach) and journey as I said earlier.

Does using the phonetic alphabet help you with the sounds you hear?

Arkadia · 04/05/2017 07:58

Well, when I look at the phoneme chart I expect to read each box the same and not in different ways. This is what threw me.

I find the phonetic alphabet a godsend to find out how to pronounce word. Perhaps because that's how I learnt. Where it is lacking is with the schwa which is still very lacking in definition. Most unstressed vocalic sounds are shoved in there. There should be a better way to describe them.

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mrz · 04/05/2017 17:36

Sounds have different value depending on position in word hence no rhyme?

Arkadia · 04/05/2017 18:31

Never mind the rhyme.
Look at the chart you linked. There is an "x" box for "exam" and one for "accept" or "box". So, same phoneme, same spelling, but two boxes.
Instead two different "our" sounds are lumped together. This is not very helpful to me because it makes me believe that the pronunciation should be identical. Even in "th" box it mentions that one is voiced and is not.

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mrz · 04/05/2017 18:43

Two different sounds with the same spelling
Exam the spelling x represents two sounds /g/ /z/
In box the spelling x represents two sounds /k/ /s/ (as does the spelling cc in accept)

mrz · 04/05/2017 18:44

Unless you say eksams or bogz Hmm

mrz · 04/05/2017 18:58

"So, same phoneme, same spelling, but two boxes." No different phoneme, same spelling so two boxes.
The spelling our represents different phonemes /er/ /or/ /schwa/

Arkadia · 04/05/2017 19:18

I confess, I don't follow. I'll have a look at those links.

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