Resources for phonics

[Arkadia]

Hi,

Some time ago I read a thread in here about a child who could read, but would fail a phonics test. After giving it some thought I have come to realise that my DD1 is exactly in this situation. She reads pretty well and with a lot of expression, however when she comes across a word she doesn't know, she simply cannot decode it.

She does not know her phonics.

She is now P3 (Y2) and really loves reading, but she reads like me... When I come across a word I don't know , I need to look it up, unless it is very easy; I can't decode words and I look at them as a whole, a bit as if they were ideograms (I was never thought phonics and English is not my first language, but my vocabulary is very good by any standard, so I get by easily enough).

So, my question is: is there any resource I can use to help her improve her/my knowledge of phonics? It cannot be too "small children oriented", otherwise she will feel belittled.
On top of that I hope that a better knowledge of phonics will help her with her spelling which is absolutely appalling.

Interestingly enough, although I have been following what my kids have been doing at school, I never managed to learn phonics. Perhaps because I've never really seen the point of it. Instead DD2 has an instinctive understanding of phonics, so, though not so expressive, she can easily read words she does not know or understand (so, often when she is reading, I have to stop her to ask if she knows the meaning of a certain word...)

And yes, for the teacher everything is hunky-dory...

Oh, no iPad here. What is it called?

Ok, to use invigilator-speak, I have administered the spelling test from last year's SATS (I am going to work through the lot bit by bit).

DD1 scored 8/20
DD2 scored 16/20 (one mistake was because of DD1's silly questions, so clearly DD2 changed her answer :( )

DD1 mistakes are, to me, very bad indeed. Here they are:
scay/sky
shel/shell
mony/money
tack/talk
rids/rides
per/pear
lassye/lazy
mach/match
ofest/office
glov/glove
bonses/bounces
gentl/gentle

Interesting that both misspelt lazy and office.

Comments?

I haven't got a clue with link between lack of phonics and spelling, but how is her reading pseud words?

Have you tried one of past phonics screen checks?
If they failed(around under 32/40) in yr1, they get some sort of help in England.
If you tried it and her score isn't great, I would teach her from very basic, even she thinks it's too babyish.

Ok, done that...
She got 1 wrong (wove). She hesitated on 2 (treats and scram). I have a question mark on 3, but I think that is me... In fairness I feel she got them right.
All the others are fine (including "jigh" which I would NOT have got right in a million years :D )

Have you had her hearing checked? A number of those spelling errors suggest she could be ok on phonics, but mis-hearing the word. Possibly worth examining alongside further phonics work.

@Carol, I doubt it... You are given a sentence for context, so even if you mishear a word (due primarily to my heavily accented pronunciation), you should be able to fill the gaps.
In any case, she didn't spell one word for another, but the right word, only in a "personal" fashion.

So she is fine with reading total pseud words, but makes mistake/hesitates real words? Sound like she has phonics knowledge then. Haven't got a clue what's wrong though.

OK, small update... in the punctuation test DD2 scored 17. Some things she didn't know at all (like adverbs), and oaths she "guessed" them right, so she did OK as it is, so in total she manages to scrape through scoring exactly 100 of adjusted score. Interesting that one of the mistakes is spelling (din't instead of didn't).

DD2 scored 13 and ended up with 103 of adjusted score (she made a mistake on two things she should have known. Other things she has never come across, so she got them wrong).

So grammar needs some work (especially and understandably for DD2), but spelling is certainly a major concern for DD1.

As a whole, this one is a very easy test. I am surprised that the pass mark is so low (25/40 right answers), especially considering that both my DD passed with no preparation whatsoever and having gaps in the curriculum.
Also, it is surprising that DD1 would be considered to be on par when instead her spelling is clearly VERY sub-par.

I expect the maths ones to go well for both.
The reading comprehension... who knows.

You needed a score of 25 or 26 to achieve the magic 100 mark (the expected standard for children aged 6-7)

Many of the spelling errors suggest she is trying to visualise the word others suggest incomplete phonic knowledge.

I think she remembers words like I do... Looking at the shape ;)

The question is... What to do now? I want to go to the school first and point this out (AGAIN!), but what do I say? Am I right in being concerned?

Slightly OT, I cannot see how on this test a score of less a 100% can be deemed acceptable, especially if you pretty much know what you will be asked. If you misspell no more than 1 or 2 words, you can put it down to... nerves or confusion or whatever, but more than that raises questions. Also the punctuation and grammar part is very basic and it should well be possible to score 100% easily. Said that I looked on Google for some same scores and found a school boasting that their scores were something like 108 when the national average is 105 (which proves the point that the adjusted scale is not right), but I digress...

Hoe does the national average being 105 prove the scale is incorrect?

It's not a standardised score.

Looking at the shape of a word is extremely unhelpful if you think about it. most is the same shape as mast ... bag is the same shape as hug yet they are very different words cat and cot and oat and eat and not and rat ... band bend bead head etc etc etc

"I cannot see how on this test a score of less a 100% can be deemed acceptable" even at degree level you don't have to achieve 100% to pass so why would you expect a seven ( or just six depending on birthday) year old to get every answer correct?

Again, if you think these tests are too easy, there's nothing to worry about your DDs, is there?

You cannot take a test from another country's curriculum into a school and ask why your DD didn't score highly in it.

Scotland does not have a national phonics strategy AFAIK.

Arkadia, TBH, from your past posts, I thought you have already established that your dd's school is rubbish to your standard.
Unless you can change school, I would suggest you take your dds' education in your own hands, rather than expect much from school.
You seem to know how to educate children, and 1 - 1 or 1 - 2 is always better than 1 - 30 or whatever number of children your dd's class has.

Great, Scotland is a different nation, not country.

Irvine, exactly because the tests are so easy (haven't done the reading comprehension, though) that they are SO worrying. I mean, I would expect that after three years of school a child would score way better than 8/20 in an easy spelling test. The problem is that I don't really know how to go about it. I might end up talking to the HT (who probably dives every time she sees me approaching :D ) as I feel that talking to the teacher is a waste of time.

Irvine, I don't feel I am equipped to teach spelling/phonics as I don't know them to start with and my pronunciation is not always up to BBC radio 3 standards ;) I wouldn't know how to teach my own language TBH.
I can do maths, though ;) As the years go by I will find out what I can do.

Probably won't help but my son did toe by toe which is a recovery programme. He didn't seem to pick up phonics when taught at infant school but this programme taught him. It's very dull a d he wasn't reading very well at all when he started it which is why it's probably not the right thing but I thought I'd mention it.

Rafal, if the average attainment is above the expected level, then the expectations are clearly badly set as they are way too low.
In fairness, to think that a score of about 55% in a test like that after three years of schooling is to be expected and that anything above that is above expectations is pretty - for want of a better word - pathetic.
Clearly, if these adjusted scores are set for political reasons, that is a completely different kettle of fish, but if you set the bar SO low, then you (the government) can't complain if at the other end of the school career the results are not that great.

Thanks grass ;)

Arkadia phonics isn't accent dependent your accent is just as good as someone on Radio 3. You teach to the child's accent. Listen to the sounds you can hear when the child (or you if your accent is the same) says the word and map the spellings to the sounds.

My pronunciation is rubbish. Dictionary is your friend. Yesterday, my ds came across a word "archipelago" and asked me how to say it. I send him straight to dictionary. I didn't know how you pronounce ch, either ch in church, or ch in Christmas.

I wouldn't know how to teach my own language either. He learns it online.

No, she has a different accent from mine. Alas she has acquired the local accent (with a bit of luck she will lose it going forward ;) ), so when I try to make a certain sound and she makes a sound, they may not sound the same. For example, we have resorted to hand gestures to differentiate between /i/ and /e/ as I keep mixing them up when spelling (they usually spell using the sound made by the letter, not the name of the letter. On reflection this doesn't seem to translate to phonemes... I wonder why)