State vs Private...Head vs Heart - Help!

[OakCat]

Need someone to talk some sense into me.

One DD just got our first choice primary school so should be very happy and grateful, except I’m not.
As we were not sure if we’d get into a school as the area is so oversubscribed we went to look at a private school and have secured a place.

I just can’t shake the feeling that that we should be sending DD there. It’s a smallish mixed school until secondary where it then goes exclusively to girls until sixth form.

I have written a list of advantages and disadvantages:-

Advantages

-Small class sizes (DD has sensitive hearing so struggles in noisy environments)
-Access to wide ranging activities – I want her to find a passion in life. Massive emphasis on sport and music, both which is a current interest but appreciate this could change as only 4!
-More school trips so will help her gain independence and love of travel.
-More likely to have lifelong friends if stays until 18 (very important as she is an only child and cousins much older)

Disadvantages

-We could afford the school fees but it would mean making things a little tight at home, would need to go back up to full-time work in a couple of years to keep up with fees but it is doable (I just see it that she is getting some of her inheritance now)
-Might need to move house as school is 40 minutes away and too young to take school bus until age 7/8.
-After school club finishes at 5.30 so makes it very tight to pick up in the evening.

Both DH and I went to state schools and did ok, my big overall sadness is the lack of exposure to different activities. Plus all the children I have know who went to private schools just seem to have this extra passion for learning. I’m not really that worried about academics, of course I want her to reach her potential but I want her to find the things she good at (academic, sport or other) and the private school just seems to increase the chances of her doing that.

Please talk some sense into me as it’s been driving me crazy for months and I clearly just need to do the obvious thing and be happy for the first choice state school…but my heart is saying something different.

Friendships at EYFS are pretty fluid and transitory, those that last seem to be the ones where the parents put a lot of effort into keeping the children very close for their own reasons. She will make new friends. I wouldn't base long term, significant family decisions on a 4yo's friendships.

It depends on timings, on clubs, and tbh gets easier as they get older because classes tend to start slightly later (and also because they meet friends who do the same activities - we do a LOT of lift sharing)

Rainbows / Brownies / Cubs tend to start around 6pm ish. DD's first dance classes were on a Saturday morning, and are now all 6pm or later. DS had music lessons in state primary, then walked straight to his teacher's house (2 minutes from school door); his music groups are Saturday mornings or quite late evening. Rugby / Football / Swimming etc were all evening or weekend things.

State primary schools do after school clubs too! Ours offer loads of sports, choir and piano lessons after school. Our After School Club then picks them up after the club. Or you can get childminders to do the same. And, once you've got to know some of the other parents, swaps and trades of pick ups can be a lifeline.

I do think the transition from Nursery to school is hard on parents! It goes from all being on one site and wrap-around your work to something much messier and more complex. And I do remember that being really daunting to start with. But you do get used to it.

We're moving our son from private to state.

The fees are like a snowball and with another child fast spproaching School age the choice to work full time or state wasno contest for me.

Even with 18 in a class you still need to reading etc after School how easy will.that be if you are working full time.

At my sons prep School most the kids do a Lot of extracurricular sports clubs and we will just carry on with those.

It depends on the state option but might be worry a try.......

In your shoes I would go state for now and reconsider for age 7. And then reconsider again at 11. 40 min drive is very long for a small child.

Also I went to a 4-18 school and all my school friends are those I made age 11 upwards. I think the friendship thing is a red herring.

Most of my two DC's clubs are at lunchtime or after school in their (state) primary. Between them they go to newspaper club, choir, gymnastics, sewing, running, dodgeball, yoga, drama, photography, book group and watercolour clubs. There are plenty more to choose from. Most of those are free.

What kind of activities were you hoping for? My tiny state school has clubs in: coding, maths, football and multi sports. We're a tiny school. New clubs will begin in the Summer too. In the last 3 months we've had 4 trips.

State primaries will have many opportunities, activities, trips etc.

If you are going to move house is the school you have looked at the only option? You might find one with more comprehensive wrap around which would eliminate one of your cons.

I teach in a really wonderful state primary. I can't fault it, it's lovely in every way. My DS goes to a prep. I would make the same decision for him over and over again.

Haven't RTFT but two points I'd make:

1. Friendships are very fluid all through early school. I'm actually looking forward to DD going up to secondary to get a fresh start from some of the more toxic friends she's currently exposed to. If she stays with same kids all through it may actually narrow her field of friends/experience.

1. The money you'd save if you went state could greatly enrich your daughters life. Holidays, hobbies, adventures... all the better because it's with her family rather than her school.

Just a couple of points to consider.

Personally, I'd go for the local state school at primary level. There is nothing a private school could teach that a state can't at that level, ex cept perhaps, prepping her for 11+. Spend a tiny fraction of the money you'd save on all the extras - ballet, horse riding, music lessons etc and enjoy the days out yourself as a family. Then save up for private secondary if you want to, as that's the stage where smaller, more focused and calm classes can make a big difference.

If paying the fees would make things tight at home, have you factored in other costs? DD's uniform is ridiculous - £589 new for one set of uniform, that's without spares so you can have some on and some in the wash and then you need things like stationery, the ever growing book list and stupid coloured socks. There are also approximately 7 million dress up days a term (oh alright, it was actually 6 last term, but it feels like 7 million) which always involve a costume and have a 50/50 chance of you having to pay £2 for the privilege, there are also charity days, more than average PTA events, as well as PTA subscription (which btw, not paying doesn't get you out of PTA events, i tried) ridiculously priced trips (I swear their coach is fuelled by unicorn tears) and the cost for the many varied after school and lunchtime activities - which some schools include in the fees and others don't, this term i think we are up to £110, thats 2 lunch clubs and 2 after school. Oh, and I do still have to ferry her around for some activities, inc. some sports matches etc in school time.

There are second hand shops and they are great, when they have uniform in the right size but obviously there is only so much 2nd hand stuff floating around

I don't mean to sound all doom and gloom but I was 'ah yeah, we can just afford the fees, few sacrifices etc,' I've had to get a second job to fund the rest of it and things are still tight! I reckon we pay at least half as much again on top of fees.

It would actually be cheaper to pay a childminder to ferry her around to activities, we have only stuck with private because our state options are awful, DS went to a state primary (we moved when he was year 5) and actually I think he got a better education than DD's getting, without anywhere near the costs and in £3 Asda trousers not £45 school skirts.

OP, I'd be inclined to go with the state option and get an afterschool nanny to ferry her to activities, help with homework, or in the first term just take her home and let her chill. The money you save on fees would surely cover that, and you might even be able to find someone who would do at least part of the school holidays, which would save you another headache. That way, you could have the activities, but without the fees and with less stress for you in terms of getting there for pick-up time.

The other thing to consider is that preps tend to give a lot of homework, much more than state primaries, IME. So that leaves less time for extra-curricular stuff. My kids have so little homework that it can be done (easily and quickly) on a weekend afternoon, and that leaves all the evenings in the week free for activities. Kids I know at preps have an hour a day homework in KS2, which leaves them working pretty late into the evening if they've done an activity that afternoon after school.

By my reckoning Ifnot a nanny 3hrs a day for 195 days would be around 12k- the same or more than school fees.

DD is in yr5 Indie (getting 50% bigger if/when they go to the senior school) and I reckon there are always 3 or 4 children joining each year/mid-year. Within reason the bursar likes fees and the head likes enthusiastic kids.

6 years ago I was in a similar(ish) situation to you. We had an outstanding state infants within staggering distance of the house and a lovely pre-prep a good 20-30 minute drive away. Luckily a hideous traffic jam on the way back from an open day convinced me that the local academic state was a no-brainer. DD had 3 lovely years there and has made LOTS of local friends (TBF she started making them at gym clublswimming/dancing).

We moved her to Indie in year 3 (15 minutes away, but a wide catchment). She is normally at school from about 8-4:30, sometimes later with fixtures/extra-curricular but we still tend to default to seeing local friends during the school hols and non-school....just because they live round the corner (and I suspect we'll always stay friends with the parents). Having multiple groups of friends takes the pressure off "best friends" and cliques (so far, touch wood).

All schools are different (and all children are different) so it is hard to advise about the suitability of 2 schools, but one of the big challenges for working parents might be having to sort childcare during the VERY LONG summer hols. I don't want to do the maths, but I think lunches, trips, instrument tuition and residentials add a good £1,500 to our fee bill (possibly closer to £2k).

If I had my time again I would probably take the same route.

What happens at 11+? Is it a very competitive area, in which case getting into a through place at 4 is often worth it to avoid a couple of years of stress/tutoring.

Lowdoorinthewal1 I think it depends where you are. A nanny here is £10 an hour x 3 hours x 195 days = £5850, some of the part time ones are less than that. DD's school fees are just under 10k a year (lower ks2 fees, it gets higher the higher up the school you go)

Let me tell you about my eldest entirely state educated two (others had mixture)
DD1 has friends from primary and secondary. I saw two of secondary ones in Waitrose today and got a lovely hug. She also has university friends. With school she went to Russia, kayaked the Dordogne, ski'd in Italy, went as ambassador with Holocaust education trust to Auschwitz; sung at Royal Albert and Festival halls; did Gold DofE, learned to sail and got instructor qualification. She has 6As at A level, grade 8 Distinction on violin and played in County Youth Orchestra. She was also member of youth parliament, won a debating competition and took part in numerous plays and concerts.
I say this not to brag but to demonstrate you do get extracurricular activities aplenty in state schools. The myth of 9-3 classroom studies and nothing more is perpetuated by independents to persuade parents they are automatically the best option - they are not always so.

My son also went all the way through state. He didn't fair quite as well academically - 4A*s and 1A at A level. He was more interested in playing rugby, captained the school team and trained with Harlequins academy. School really encouraged his musical and performance talents and he was in several professional productions of musicals (London theatres) before his voice broke. He remained very interested in drama and directed several school plays whilst in sixth form. He too did Gold DofE which involved a kayaking expedition in Canada and walking in Cairngorms. He also went on a volunteer programme to Tanzania and a school exchange to Uganda. He played bassoon but never took it beyond grade 7. still plenty of extracurricular activities and amazing residentials.

Blimey Crumbs - where on earth did your DC go to school that they got 6As at A level? Most schools don't allow you to sit more than 4!

DD was in a very small state school, I'm talking 8-10 in the year. I thought it would be great as she was timid etc. It was for the 1st year then as time went on, the falling sour between the girls was immense, it was ridiculous, I was always in there, I was actually glad when she moved on to secondary so they could branch out friendship wise, it's been a huge difference. She's only really now friends with one of the girls, albeit they live in each other's pockets!!! So the lifelong friends thing isn't really an advantage point.

We went through the same dilemma with dd. She ended up at a small state school and the small class sizes made life so hard for her that we nearly removed her to home educate at the start of year 6. Into a massive state secondary and she has thrived.

We had the extra money for extra curricular activities and foreign travel and it wasn't the end of the world when dh was made redundant.

If we had had more money, to be honest I would have sent her private, but I'm not convinced she would have done any better. My dad and brother were both teachers and said if we had a good state primary, send her there, while we found out her strengths, weaknesses and interests and then use private secondary if we wanted to.

They did RE A level alongside GCSEs (entirely optional and not pushed by us). They did AQA baccalaureate where extended essay counted as one A level. Then they did four academic A levels.
Our son chose not to do AQA bacc so didn't do the additional A level/extended essay. He didn't do RE either but did drama as an add on in extracurricular time.
It was an ordinary comprehensive in SE of England - they weren't exceptional, lots of children had similar experiences (7 in my daughter's year are now doctors, 3 are vets). Lots of comprehensives provide a very, very good education for those who want to use opportunity offered. I've experience of comprehensive and top 10 independent and can honestly say whilst the independent conferred benefits of a very, very affluent peer group, the comprehensive provided a more rounded and less ego-centric education.

Crumbs, I was a member of youth parliament through state school, good times and it led on to a lot of extra opportunities, but that isn't exactly an opportunity open to many people, although it is thankfully more open then it was in the early days, I used to get rolled out to meetings with cabinet ministers as look at our disasvantaged young person, she's poor, a teenage mum and has been in care. My youth worker got a national award for reaching out to 'hard to reach young people' and everything' (I have a feeling I know your daughter from your description btw, in which case she won a couple of awards and is a pretty amazing girl and I've totally outed myself)

Don't forget that independent terms are shorter than state terms, so that's more money to spend on holiday clubs if you're working, which may only operate for state school holidays anyway.

You need to take a hard, cold look at this.

Once you have been and looked round and seen the facilities etc you become a bit invested and it is harder to see things in a balanced way and say no, esp if you have said yes already.

However, you still can say no to the Independent school. You can still keep the door open for a possible 7+ entry if you feel the state infant isn't good enough.

It's all about the positives of one compared to the downsides of the other. If the State option is good, then take it. If the state option is poor then don't. If the fees are a stretch then there have to be really significant advantages of the private over state to justify that cost and sacrifice. To me, it doesn't look like the net advantages are big enough. Recognise that once you get into it, moving back to state will feel hard, even at secondary level, so if you commit to private now you need to recognise the long term implications.

The advice to go with the state option and see how it goes is a good one.

If you are worried about pulling out and upsetting the private, don't worry. They expect this to happen and if you pull out in a positive way, you will probably find they are positive too and leave things in a Friendly way so that you feel able to return to them in future if you wish to. It is in their interest to do that. Of course you would probably owe a term of fees, but don't let that put you off pulling out if it's right, because that is small fry compared to the outlay of going there.