Should your child's reception teacher have GCSE maths and English?

[mrz]

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/dfe-drops-gcse-maths-and-english-requirement-early-years-educators

BitofA - tbh, I think that depends. If, for example, a parent who had few qualifications decided that they wanted to train as a member of staff at Pre-school when an adult, already with sigbnificant life experience, perhaps previous employment, and their own knowledge of parenting, then I feel that going back into education to acquire a qualification that demonstrates a good, functional knowledge of English and Maths - sufficient to read and act upon a government document or a child's specialist report, to write a report in correct written English, and to manage a budget including wages - is sufficient.

However, for a school leaver, without any of the 'other' skills needed for the job, who has progressed linearly through education and wants to enter the childcare profession, then acquiring GCSEs in English and Maths should be required.

Does that make sense?

Noble - no idea. Do they do it as sessional care e.g. morning / afternoon sessions each day adding up to 15 hours per child?

In my area state provided nursery education is free. You apply for your child to start the September after they turn 3 & the hours are the same as school hours.

So the 'norm' should be the GCSEs, but for exceptional candidates who come into the workforce at a later point, then functional skills should be acceptable instead?

My ds attended nursery attatched to school, but considered private?
He went 6 hours X 5 days a week, and 15 hours free was deducted from fee.

Noble My DS goes to an infant and nursery school. The nursery class was for 3-4yr olds for the year prior to Reception. They were only there for the 15hrs per week (mornings or afternoons). You couldn't have full days, but could pay for lunch club if you wanted to.

We loved it - qualified teachers, lots of play, and a lovely transition to Reception.

Ps ought to add that it's a state school

Many students can write in a functional way and use maths practically. The ability to analyse a 19th century text for linguistic devices will not make you a better nursery assistant, hairdresser or plumber.

In my area state provided nursery education is free are you in England?

I was talking about English Language GCSE, not English Literature.

I also think that it is, to an extent, about the 'status' of the qualification and the job. If the entry level, for school leavers, is functional skills, then that signals that this is a type of work done by those who are not academic, for those who have been streamed off into a lower ranking qualification. While there ARE some childcare workers who are exceptional but have never been in any way academic, this is perhaps not ideal for a workforce who will be involved in all of a child's pre-school education.

Whereas saying that for exceptional adult candidfates who have all the other skills required, it is only necessary to set the hurdle as functional skills, does not have the same impact. [Hence my comment about our pre-school experience - yes, some of the adults only had a level 3 childcare qualification BUT all but 1 had MUCH higher academic qualifications in a previous field]

I do think, by the way, that nursery / pre-school workers are not in the same bracket as plumbers / hairdressers - the former are involved in the delivery of education in its widest sense, the latter two are not. I don't think there is anything wrong in saying that there should be a slightly different academic 'bar' for those who are involved in delivering pre-school education from those who are involved in plumbing or cutting hair.

Cantkeepaway so am I. English language GCSE requires students to have knowledge of and be able to analyse linguistic devices and structure. This is a significant portion of the exam.

Remember the requirement for nursery nurses to have GCSEs is a new one, Gove brought it in. It hasn't worked.

noble lots of schools in Bristol have nursery classes - generally provision is split into two classes, mornings and afternoons or 2.5 days. There are also standalone state nursery schools and nursery classes in children's centres that can be more flexible allowing extra hours to be bought on top of the 15 hours.

Yes noble - I am in England & live on the border of three Local Authorities. I can't comment on the one local authority but certainly when dd & DS were in nursery (they are 12 & 15 now) in one LA nursery was 5 half days per week & in the other 5 full days per week. I ended up going private because I didn't want full time & it was all or nothing.

Admission is done on a similar basis to recrption classes eg looked after siblings in linked primary, catchment/distance. The only difference is that the LA cannot guarantee every child who applies a place somewhere as nursery education isn't compulsory. In practice I don't know anyone who didn't get something.

I teach Functional Maths to apprentices and recruitment has nosedived since the Gov said the level threes had to achieve GCSE grade C. It is not just that some failed it at school and found it daunting. The big problem is the difficulty of joinin g a course, attending evening classes and the fact that there are only two chances a year to take GCSE.

Functional maths at level 2 is a good award covering practical real life problems using the following:money, date,time,percentages,fractions,decimals,measure, conversions, scale, perimeter, are, vo!ume, formulas, equations, data handlng and graphs.it is challenging for those who achieved lower than a D at GCSE. I think it is a sound qualification for young people without GCSEs and actually more suitable for the workplace than a higher GCSE paper which has a lot of algebra, trig, Pythagoras etc which is more suited to those going on an academic pathway.

I do think that. Nursery nurses would benefit from short courses on working with children in numeracy but maybe they have in-house training at some point (unlike!y I suppose.

English is similar in that it covers communicating in different forms and for various reasons. The reading paper (comprehension) is thorough. A candidate cannot pass if their spelling, grammar and punctuation is very bad.

I think it is a good thing if the Gov is backpedaling on this as recruitment should improve and potentially good nursery workers won't be turned away.

I do also think it depends on the age group a nursery nurse will be working with. For babies, the level of academic skill needed is probably slightly lower. For 304 year olds in the year immediately before school, there will be children who read fluently, those who don't read yet but are intensely curious about phonics/dinosaurs/space and those who can count up to and read large numbers and calculate with smaller ones. Knowing what 'the next step' looks like for those children, and answering their questions fully does require more than is needed for a nursery nurse working with 0-9 month old babies.

3-4 year olds!!

I think the issue is that to work with young children is a responsible job that requures a level of education. You will be asked to comment on childrens development, liaise with other services and write reports. You also need to communicate effectively with parents. If you are only functionally literate then you will find this part of the role difficult. I have come across v kind and caring people in this role but I do think they need a certain level of education.

Irvineoneohone - why do you think that? Are you misinterpreting my frustration (at the poor literacy standards) as a personal attack or bitchiness? Do you think it is ok for an early years manager to write so badly on their public social media, etc? Those quotes in my previous post are genuine, not made up for dramatic effect. Do you think I should lower my standards and the expectations I should have of an educational setting? I wonder if you think Ofsted would find that acceptable?

As already explained, it is the only early years setting to which I have access (rural, can't afford a car) and it gives my youngest child an opportunity to play with other children of the same age and experience independence before school. Am I so bad?

cantkeepaway, my ds was that child. Far advanced compared to others.
My ds' nursery manager took him on. She became his key worker and done one on one lessons with him.

So, as long as there's someone who can do that, not all the teachers need to be able to teach academics in nursery, ime.

I think all preschool staff (working with 3-school age) should have, at least, maths and English GCSEs(or Olevels in my case) and a level 3 NVQ in childcare.

I think preschool needs to be valued as early years education rather than childcare.

I think wages need to be improved to reflect the importance and the increasing responsibilities of the job.

Hazyjane, I totally agree with you.
Cantkeepaway, I totally agree with you.
Knowing the next steps are important for 3/4 year olds. Yes, the pay should reflect the expertise, experience, knowledge and skills.
This is a concern I have at the increasing number of (lovely, hardworking, skilful at their job, underpaid) LSA's who are covering for absent teachers in primary schools. Knowing the next steps, widening/broadening/extending a learning experience is not necessarily something untrained teachers will do.
All in my own opinion and experience that is.

I think preschool needs to be valued as early years education rather than childcare.

Sure, but I don't think that education is the pretty simple technical skills of reading and counting. I'm always surprised when people talk about comprehension of what's read being a problem, and that shows that the technical decoding skills have got ahead of understanding and vocabulary - those things strike me as great to learn in a preschool environment.

Of course, I also think the functional skills required of a preschool staff include numeracy and literacy.

No I think early years education is about listening to stories, music, rhythm, rhyming, movement and dance, counting, learning about shape, size, numbers, mark making, painting, modelling, cutting, sticking, pouring and scooping, cooking, experimenting and exploring, getting messy indoors and out, pretending and making up stories and games, looking at the world around us, and the people in it, learning how to get on with others, how to manage your feelings and talk about them, learning new words, and how to use them, understanding ideas being able to express them, learning how to look after yourself, keep yourself clean, go to the toilet, get your coat on and off, eat well......and about a million and half other things. Oh and doing all this while playing and generally having a ball, because you learn by living and learn throughout your life.