Should your child's reception teacher have GCSE maths and English?

[mrz]

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/dfe-drops-gcse-maths-and-english-requirement-early-years-educators

Currently there's no suggestion that level 3 nursery nurses will be teaching Reception classes in state schools.

Well I suppose you need to be able to read a sentence as well as string one together

Do they actually have to pass quadratics etc to get a C? Or is it just a "nice to have"? Because thinking of some of the people I know with maths GCSEs, I find it very hard to believe that they know algebra or anything actually mathematical.

It was a very very long time ago Alexandra - it's possible things have changed a lot. Though as I say, looking at the people I know...

I know people with degrees who can barely string a sentence together.

In my country, to be a kindergarten teacher requires totally different qualification. I think they need to be able to play piano and studied child phycology or something. But no one asks about how good they were at maths or literacy. And the school starts at 6/7, so they are teaching 4/5/6 years old.
I don't think those children has disadvantage compared children in England.
And I would prefer them to have those qualification rather than maths and literacy.

I passed GCSEs in stuff a long long time ago that I can't remember now. Doesn't mean I didn't know it at the time.

Considering on the old syllabus you needed between 70-75% on the foundation paper to get a grade C (no one really knows the boundaries on the new 9-1 syllabus yet but the content is much harder) I'd say yes, they need to know how to do it.

Thanks everyone

Ah Irvine, back in the day of teacher training in the UK, everyone who wanted to teach infants had to learn to play the piano. I was lucky, I was a pianist anyway. Sadly in the last ten years, the importance of music, and indeed other subjects such as art, dance, PE, has diminished. That is another whole debate though!
Back to the point of the thread. I personally think that all adults working with very young children should have a very good grasp (not sure that it is always measured by a GCSE though) of numeracy and literacy.
Yes, I have come across some graduate teachers in my long primary teaching career who have poor numeracy and literacy (written and spoken) levels despite having qualifications in these subjects. Probably the most common being the use of double negatives.

My dc3's key worker (also the preschool manager) has truly dreadful literacy levels. I very regularly cringe at her grammar, spelling, punctuation, and misuse of phrases in her letters and facebook updates (e.g. "we have a speshal xmas vista today"). Her spoken English isn't fab either (e.g. "Was you ere yesterday?"). The other regular staff are the same, the better ones don't stay. I hate it and have had to make my peace with it as my dc3 will be moving to primary in September and if I want my dc3 to have any kind of early years preschool experience, this setting, limitations included, is my only choice where I live. I treat it as a nice place for dc3 to go and play with her friends three times a week and try my best to broaden her learning opportunities at home instead.

Mrz don't show this thread to your teaching colleagues. You really don't come across as well as you may think.

Wellies, you don't sound like a nice person at all. Just don't send dc there if you think it's so dreadful.

And Pestilen, mrz is the one of the best teacher on MN. Please show some respect.

How on earth do you know if someone is a good teacher on an online forum??

TBH I would be unimpressed if our reception teacher did not have GCSE English / Maths. They are meant to be starting to teach children to read, write, count etc. Some of the teacher training people DC has had at their school - there has been some shocking spelling in DC's homework diary. I don't think its petty to expect people to spell 'Motorway' correctly. I think its shocking if they can't and TBH they shouldn't be in education if they can't spell themselves. (I'm not picking on teachers here I also wouldn't want e.g. an illiterate lawyer / Dr).

Well mrz will certainly agree with you Irvine

You can pass GCSE English while spelling motorway incorrectly if you can identify and discuss the use of metaphors.

story, I know she is the great teacher because she helped me so much over the years.
Have you seen many past post asking for her help?
A teacher who spend so many times helping strangers on anonymous forum like this, makes me feel that she has to be a fabulous teacher in RL.

The way i read the article is that it says:

1. Staff who work in pre-school settings may not need to have GCSEs in English and Maths.

1. Staff who lead nursery classes and Reception classes in maintained schools could include those who have a specific Early Years qualification, which requires GCSE English and Maths as a condition of entry, as well as those with a more conventional wider age range qualification leading to QTS.

I don't have any problem with either of those EXCEPT that it seems to further promote a 2-tier pre-school system, in which nursery classes in maintained schools have to be led by someone with a level of education that is not required by someone leading a class / group / session for the same age group but in a different setting (nursery / committee-led Pre-school etc).

In most areas, there isn't a choice - either all schools have nursery classes / joint Reception / Nursery [Foundation Stage] classes OR there are separate pre-school settings such as day nurseries and committee-led pre-schools. It would be interesting to know whether one or the other of these promotes better outcomes in the longer term - at end of Reception, KS1 and KS2 - and whether qualifications of staff in the Pre-school setting have any bearing on any difference found. I suspect - though it would be very interesting to see the data - that academic qualifications of staff are a relatively minor variable in the overall quality of the pre-school setting and the long-term outcomes for the children.

It is already the case that nursery classes in schools are led by teachers and preschools/private nurseries can be led by a level 3 qualified nursery nurse.

What is this about nursery classes in primary schools?
My DD goes to a private nursery which does pre-school stuff for the 15 hours. My DS went to a childminder most of the time and went to a pre-school in the village hall for his 15 hours. The primary school starts at Reception and is taught by a primary school teacher and is nothing to do with the nursery or pre-school. What happens in other schools?

Going against the tide but yes, I would like all early years workers to have as the bare minimum C's in Maths and English. Unfortunately we don't value the role enough to pay enough to make this possible, hence the proposed further erosion if professional qualifications :(

All staff would need an English and maths qual just not necessarily GCSE. A Functional Skills qual would be acceptable. FS tests ability to read and write in English but not your ability to analyse the use of literary devices.

Further to my post, I would be wary of a pre-school setting where none of the staff had these GCSEs, which it seems would be possible for non-school-based settings under the new proposals. Requirements for reading and comprehending the impact of legislation, curriculum proposals, SEN reports etc, plus knowledge of finance, would seem to me to be an issue where no staff had these school qualifications.

However, I wouldn't have a problem with a setting where some of the staff were less academically qualified, provided that their skills and attitudes, in terms of working with children, were of the highest quality.

I've just looked up the excellent committee-led pre-school that my children attended. Staff qualifications range from BA / PGCE (secondary), through nursery nursing, via a healthcare qualification followed by a Level 3 childcare qualification, to a science graduate who has then acquired a Level 3 childcare diploma while working their way up at the Pre-school. Did their level of paper qualification match their excellence as childcare practitioners? No - all were equally strong, regardless of their initial 'academic' starting point.

noble - I know, we have lived in similar areas - no schools contain nursery classes, all pre-school education is non school based. However, I believe that there are other areas of the country where tnursery / Foundation Stage mixed age classes are common / the norm.

All staff need a level 2 qual in English or maths. Minimum.

The issue is, is that qual GCSE or Functional Skills.

How does that work when nursery isn't compulsory education, it's childcare so is paid for by parents (except 15 hours)?