Primary application appeal

[monkeytree]

Hi
This is a bit of a long shot; I don't think many mothers would have found themselves in this situation (I hope not anyway).

To cut a long story short I had a late mc and we have been trying to move away from the area to give me a fresh start but have not yet managed to find a new house. One women in the village had a child a week after my late ds was due and every time I see her child I am reminded of what I have lost and become distressed; hence plan A = to move. This constant reminder is almost like having flashbacks. My eldest DC is due to start grammar school shortly but my youngest DC is due to start school in Sept 2018. I know it is early but I am dreading my youngest DC starting school where this woman already takes her eldest child and her youngest child will start the year after (so young dc will be sandwiched between the two of them). Plus they mix classes so it is likely that my dc will be in her dc's year at some point. Occasionally I see this woman around the village occasionally but the thought of having to do the school run and have the physical reminder on a daily basis is affecting my mood. Unsurprisingly, young DC currently goes to a pre-school in the next village and is thriving there. The problem is the other school is very small and there are already high percentage of siblings there. I know a woman from my village who did get her child into the other school but it is such a gamble and there are very few places available..
My question is would the LEA take into consideration the state of my mental health, given that I take AD's and can probably get a supporting letter from GP. Is there any way the school can create an extra space do you think? Obviously my mental health impacts on my children too. It's quite an unusual request I know but it would make an enormous difference to our daily life. It's not just the school run it is about me being involved with the school too and feeling comfortable in class assembly etc. The school in our direct catchment is outstanding and over subscribed eldest dd attended and did well. Other school is equally good in my opinion so I'm not requesting this because one school is better than the other. Any advice greatly appreciated.

Could you send your child to a private school so you have a choice of school? (Try your comment that you could afford to but somewhere else).

Yes, new potentially go private but it is a long term commitment and fees only increase once they reach secondary school. I would rather invest the funds into bricks and mortar. I know people who have gone down the private school route and I'm not convinced.

Re house flipping - do you have to declare all properties you own on the form and not just your main property ie the one on which you pay council tax etc? Surely it is down to the individual if they wish to move out of the area once admissions have taken place?

monkey,

Your historic council tax etc records demonstrate that you have owned another property.....and that it is a large one, while the one you have moved to is small....

Remember, it is up to you to prove that you have NOT moved for school admissions reasons. The council can treat the house you own and rent out, rather than the one you are choosing to use, as your address for admissions purposes if it chooses so to do.

Tbh, the main risk IME is from other parents who have not got places at an over-subscribed school, and know that you have recently moved. The most recent family I know to have tried what you are suggesting now have a child at school 10 miles away from the school they wanted ..because by the time the fraud was reported anonymously to the council by another parent, all places at closer schools had been allocated...

To be clear - you can of course sell your current home, and move perfectly legitimately to the next village to improve your chances of admission. You can then move out again by selling or renting if you so wish.

Or if you were moving 100 miles, and rented a new property in your new town, while renting out your old one, that is also legitimate, especially when supported e.g. by new job details.

What you can't do is 'have your cake and eat it too' by not selling your existing house and moving a short distance into a rented property.

Cantkeep is right re housing. If you own a house that you could move back to (and it sounds like you might intend to), the council can takr this as primary address. If you own a house in Newcastle and rent in Exeter when you apply for schools, that is different

From your first post, I thought you were selling and moving.

A marginal case might be if you rent a much larger property than your permanent home - backed up by evidence of the size of your family. A family of 4 moving from a 1 bed flat that they own, renting it as an investment property and renting a new 3 bed house is more likely to be seen as a legitimate and genuine move than the move of the same family from a 3 bed house to a 1 bed flat conveniently close to a great school!

Flipping and similar practices have of course happened in the past, and are still sometimes successful today. However, more and more councils are getting better and better at uncovering it.

Thanks can't. Did that family move back to property number one? The thing is no-one from pre school have visited my house so they wouldn't know that we have moved back to the same house for all intents and purposes we could have moved to a bigger house back out of the area. Just playing devils advocate here as exploring all options. The housing stock in the other area is not abundant or particularly good. Just hope something lovely comes up in next six months and we sell once and for all. It's a horrible situation rushing to find a house we did that with dc1 sold up and rented to get Dc into a different school then got forced out of rented and bought a fairly nice house but bought in a hurry so the house is not ideal. can't believe i'm facing this again at least dc1 has got into a fab grammar, I hold onto that.

If you sold your current house you could rent another. That eases the pressure a bit on finding the "right" next place.

Councils check. It might be spot checks, following on from a report etc. Lots of these will be picked up before school starts so will be invisible.

Our school application form requires a council tax number. I assume that a check is then done on how long applicants have been paying tax at that address and shorter term ones are looked at more closely.

Appreciate you would be nervous about being forced out of rented again but hopefully you were just unlucky.

Hi Helen
Ideal would be to sell up and make definite move but struggling to find a house - lack of suitable houses etc. This is genuine difficulty.

moneytree,

Yes, they did move back, but obviously had to spend an expensive and quite difficult year or so while all the various leases ran through, knowing that they were living in a tiny and less pleasant flat for no result. The school they ended up with is close to neither property - it was just the only one left with a place by the point it was uncovered.

I don't know quite what you mean about the pre-school? The LA co-ordinates admissions to all schools. They obviously have access to records of historic council tax, land registry etc, and as I understand it they do cross-check this and other information with school application [I have no insider knowledge abut what exactly they do]. Pre-school don't have any role in the process, so it doesn't matter what they know or don't know about where you live now.

Not even any to rent in different area currently, quite rural

Most LAs ask for proof of how long you have lived at an address. If it is not long enough to satisfy their regulations (check their website) they will ask for proof that you have sold the previous address. If you are letting it out we would then ask you to prove that this is a long term let. And, as others have said, if we think you're pulling a fast one we just wouldn't accept the new address. If the school you are applying for is oversubscribed we may be even less likely to believe you. It probably sounds draconian to you and I'm sorry, but we are the gatekeepers for ALL the children in that are and there's enough about the system that isn't fair as it is without richer parents being able to subvert the system over poorer ones.

I hope you manage to sell and buy "cleanly" in good time and end up with a school you are ok with. I hope also this pain becomes more manageable day to day for you

It'll show on your council tax record.

And places can be removed from your DC at any point - including after they started at the school.

But the OP is all about your well-being and to meet that need, you need any school, other than A. You aren't limited just to to B, so tying yourself up in knots about one school you are unlikely to qualify really isn't going to help your MH.

There will also be schools C-F. I think it might be time to switch your focus to them.

Hi can't

Thanks for all your info. Re pre school just thinking about who knows my current business re parents most children gearing up for admissions are at pre school currently.

Exactly, meditrina.

How far can you move? What radius, in terms of transport to secondary school for your other child, and work, can you search within? What are the other schools within this radius?

All other schools will meet your criterion of 'not being the school attended by this other child', so you potentially have quite a wide field, both in terms of schools and places to move to. You may not even need to move, if you find a school that is not your local one but which is routinely undersubscribed.

Yes med you are right about focusing on that particular school. Dc has started pre school there and is happy, I guess I just wanted continuity and I do like the school too we could move elsewhere in the county but this place was just up the road to maintain friendships etc both dc1 and me. Then you've got to factor in a reasonable secondary for dc2 it's a minefield!

So what you are saying is that, if you rent close to your desired school, the people who will know that you have done this are the parents of your child's pre-school friends? so they are the peopkle most likely to report you if they see that you have moved and that you have a place that they might have wanted?

They don't need to know your current address to have their suspicions - they know you live close enough to bring your child to pre-school, they would know you have rented a small and not very nice house very close to the school ...

But as I say, it is the council who would probably pick it up officially behind the scenes before it even got that far.

Dh will transport dc1 to secondary and sometimes collect, this is not too much of a concern re me transporting dc1

Thanks can't but not rented, would have bought first, so not exactly moving to rental if you see what I mean.

I say this kindly but you realise there will be children the age of the one you lost at every school, don't you. It is entirely possible your child will have friends with siblings the same age.

Gently I say- might seeking some help processing your loss be a better use of energy? It just seems to me you might uproot everyone and tie yourself in all these stressful knots only to end up facing the same pain again.

monkey, don't fret too much about that. Honestly, it just sounds like this isn't going to work out for you - or rather, it might, but there is very little that you can do to influence it, and i can see that certainty is important to you at this point. Try to identify a Plan B - maybe not quite as good, but still fulfilling the primary need of not being your local school.

Sorry, just seen your comment re buying vs rental - rental is the more common route for flipping, but tbh the purchase of a small house and the renting out of a large one further away from a desirable school would set exactly the same set of alarm bells ringing.

Hi Venus no have considered that and have spoken to others who have had this type of loss and some have agreed it is certain children/mothers that trigger others make me feel wistful; there seems to be a difference it's almost like what really should have been and isn't probably difficult to explain unless you've been there and feel like this although others do seem to manage the situation. I still feel like the woman who lost the baby even though others probably don't think like this.