Dreadful KS2 results WWYD?

[ChinchillaFur]

My yr 3 DD's lovely village primary school has published their KS2 results and to me they seem really low. I have compared to the nearest schools in our area and they all seem a lot higher. Only 30% of yr6 passed all 3 - reading, writing & maths. The progress indicators are all between minus 2 and minus 5. On the government website they fall into the bottom fifth (RED) for all 3 columns, which it says is the bottom 10% of schools.

Any primary people around that could advise if they really are as bad as I think they are? Not sure what I can do anyway as DD is really happy there. I also know they are due OFSTED which might sort out any issues.

User* and user^....one after another...so confusing... Please consider changing it. Why are there so many users theses days?

OP. I am in a similar boat as you but my D.C. Is year five so much less time to fix it. Our results were 33% to but more worryingly, -1.1 for reading -5.9 (!!!) for writing and -2.7 for maths.

Just to add, most of the parents at our school are unaware too, even in earlier years, the school has made their reports on progress, so if a child has made the however many jumps they are marked as making expected progress and the parents are happy. The fact that the curriculum has changed and the reform th estarting point wa swell below ARE and therefore the kids are still well below ARE seems to have passed them by. Good little trick there by the school to stop parents complaining and therefore why we get results like 33%!

I think it's pretty ridiculous and lazy to suggest the only way for kids to be happy is for the school to ignore that they are failing to get most of the children up to the minimum standards expected!

Children aren't going to have much fun at secondary school being put in the bottom set for everything if a large chunk of them were capable of more (or much more), and without anything obvious like lots of SEN to explain things, the school should have managed similarly to the average for the area.

Be careful about taking the governors word. Sometimes the issue is that governors have been too soft on the head and have not been firm enough getting real explanations for poor progress. If you were told there would be some staff changes or lots of training I would be more reassured.

I say this, because I know governors were one of the issues at our school. Getting a bad ofsted has helped, in a way, because it has pointed out clearly where the issues with management were and how that let bad teaching slip by.

Parents were happy, and can only go by what staff tell them so had no idea kids were not progressing as well as they should. I'm not saying a bad ofsted has been easy to deal with but I think it has been beneficial to the school as otherwise things would have continued to bumble on.

Thanks again for the extra replies this morning.

The cohort in July was actually 20, not 25 which does make a difference. Last year's cohort was only 12, so every child was 8% of the results. After this year, the following 3 years cohorts are stronger so things are likely to improve.

I really do want my DD to have a happy childhood. I don't want her stressing out about SATs etc. We live in a lovely area and our community is great. I want to support the village school (I do help on the PTA) to get the best out of every child, whatever 'their best' is.

What I don't want is my DD drifting along doing ok, when in another school she could be doing much better. Is that so bad?

NCforquestion - what, if anything, are you going to do? I would be much more concerned if DD was in yr 5 already.

NC - all schools are now working on the new curriculum so there is no hiding place. I totally agree it is quite common for plenty of parents to be unaware their child is not making good progress. It is important that parents can question the assessments made by the teachers and look at the books. They should also have an overview of the curriculum.

I strongly refute the notion that it is the PP children who are easiest to
Progress - if only!!! We consistently find it is our brightest children who progress at the quickest rate and of course some of these are Pp. In my LA, the best progress is made by the grammar school children. Each teacher, every year is making judgements on progress - it is not Yr judgements that follow a child all the way through their school career. Every school wants to see good progress every year and not just accelerated progress in Y6 to make up for poor teaching earlier. No form of measurement is totally accurate but clearly some attempt has to be made. How would we know what a school is doing well or not so well?

Chinchilla - do ask your Governor friend if the school has a detailed improvement plan and how it is being monitored by the governors? How do they know the school is improving? What evidence do they get from the Head? I think your school is in a position to improve but keep an eye on it!

Please don't underestimAte the importance of having a child who is happy at school. It is the mist important thing. Expectations are so high now all children are being pushed and stretched. The work my year 2 dd is doing is so much harder than the work my year 6 dd had at her age. To get "exceeding" is so hard and I wonder how some children will even meet current expectations.

So many things can affect results, and it's so much harder for a small cohort. And Sats are just a measurement of what this current lunatic government deems important not s true measurement of s good school. Your school sounds great. Don't set too much store by results, and don't move her if she is happy. if you are worried about her progress talk to her teacher about how you can support her at home.

Sorry for appalling typing.

@bojorojo the problem is, the reports say meeting expected PROGRESS. They don't make mention of the new curriculum. So even though they are under the ARE, the parents aren't concerned about the new curriculum changes as they look at the reports and go 'Howell it says he is progressing so no worries!"

@chinchillaFur no idea. I don't have a good relationship with the school. Last time I said something the head told me to take my kids elsewhere. The fact there are no places anywhere else doesn't seem to worry him.

Is your DD Happy?

Yes - then don't worry - ofstead and sats are a load of bollocks.

No - find a new school.

Would i be worried if my child was at that a school? no not a bean

I wouldn't worry tbh. Most Schools inflate the figures and there is much exams malpractice. If they enjoy School don't stress about it.

twofalls - It cannot be right that your Y2 child is doing more than a child previously in Y6. The new curriculum has some additional challenges, but not that amount of difference. No-one would say an average Y2 child is ready for secondary education! Even the brightest child!

I do not recognise this idea of widespread inflation of progress and Sats results. When Ofsted appear, they see right through this because the children's books will show that the standard is not what the school says. I think some schools have poor assessment policies and teachers are unsure about how to assess progress made without levels but by now this really should be running fairly smoothly and the new curriculum is no excuse. I think parents can ask more questions about progress. You can ask how the teacher has arrived at this judgement and what the child would need to do to exceed expected. What work would the teacher set to challenge the child?

In my experience, some children are happy bobbing along at school. They are happy not being particularly challenged and like time to chat in lessons. Other children will be bored if they do not get enough work and be asked to think more deeply about a topic. These children will become unhappy if they sit around waiting for more challenging work. Schools will find children are happy for all sorts of reasons, not just being required to do the minimum.

Thanks again for all the comments.

Having slept on things a while, I am determined not to overreact. DD really is very happy at the school and after doing some work with her this weekend it seems that she's not behind. Just hoping she's in the top 30% that pass or they improve their results in the next 4 years.

We are invited into school in a couple of weeks for a "working together" evening so I might get chance to ask some questions then. I would like to see her English & Maths books as well.

NCfor question I feel for you - it sounds like you're in a very difficult position. The stubborn part of me would move my DC if I got a comment like that! How rude!

bojorojo I think she meant her yr2 dd is doing harder work than her other child did when she was in yr2 (she's now yr6, so 4 years ago).

Ok. May have misunderstood!

"No-one would say an average Y2 child is ready for secondary education! Even the brightest child! "

bojorojo, my ds got LV4 for maths end of ks1 TA, and he was assessed as LV4 from beginning of yr2 by his teacher. (In old NC.)
That means in theory, he was ready for secondary education in old NC at the end of yr2.
At home, he is easily doing KS3 work, while stuck on repeating practicing times table at school.

I think some schools have poor assessment policies and teachers are unsure about how to assess progress made without levels but by now this really should be running fairly smoothly and the new curriculum is no excuse. I think parents can ask more questions about progress. You can ask how the teacher has arrived at this judgement and what the child would need to do to exceed expected. What work would the teacher set to challenge the child?

or don't insist they spend their time constructing woffly answers to meaningless questions, and just let them get on and teach - how about that?

teachers are unsure about how to assess progress made without levels

with or without levels, this is never going to be a precise science, children just are not made to neatly fit into discrete categories like that.

by now this really should be running fairly smoothly

why? the old system never ran smoothly, why would this one ? You are never going to get a perfect answer to the question "what level is my child?", not because of the teacher being poor at working out the answer, but because there isn't actually an answer.

the new curriculum is no excuse.

excuse for what? Who needs an excuse.? As I said there IS no actual perfect answer, so why would anyone need an excuse for not providing one? ALL these assessments are approximate.

You can ask how the teacher has arrived at this judgement I can tell you that here and now, they will have made their best guess, on the limited evidence available, with the imperfect level descriptors, in the tiny time allocation, that is how they will have done it.

what the child would need to do to exceed expected achieve more

What work would the teacher set to challenge the child? that would be the next bit on, from the bit they've just done...

all this is silly, really silly!

At home, he is easily doing KS3 work, while stuck on repeating practicing times table at school most can, at home, but at school is completely different.

user1484226561, sorry, don't get your point. Most can do what?

Irvine. I obviously do get that your DC is a genius. However the majority of bright children would not be ready for a whole host of reasons. Given that I misunderstood the posters sentiments it is a bit of a pointless discussion. Other than for your DC of course. I cannot imagine how my friend's high achieving Cambridge maths graduate DCs ever managed to be educated in a local village school!

User - I was addressing a parent who felt uncomfortable asking about progress. The questions I raised were aimed at getting a dialogue started. I have never been talked to in the way you post here by a teacher and I would hope you do not talk to parents like that in your school. I have seen teachers happily talk about the work children have done, what they could do to improve and show enthusiasm for the trying to get the best work out of the children - they also happily talk to engaged parents. If you do not know what a child has learnt then how do you know if your teaching is any good? Unless total arrogance and distain of others tells you it must be so! You come across as an unhelpful jaded hasbeen unsuited to having a dialogue with parents. You do not appear to want to explain anything in a helpful way. It is true that some schools have found introducing the new curriculum a struggle and are finding it difficult to convey to parents what good progress looks like.

I would hate to be working with you! Do you think you may be in the wrong job?

Thanks chinchilla, that's exactly what I meant

No, bojorojo, I don't think my ds is genius. He is more of a twice exceptional, with skewed interests and special needs in other area. (very mild ASD and ADHD)