TO not get Phonics

[BIgBagofJelly]

I'm mainly curious as opposed to concerned, my DD is summer born reception and brings home ORT level 2 books so I'm assuming she's within the normal range and I'm not really worried. What I don't get though is the school make a huge dealt of phonics (and I understand there's a lot of evidence to back this up) but the Oxford Reading Tree books she brings home seem to have so many words that she can't "decode" either because they're irregular or because she hasn't learned that particular rule yet. (E.g. the E on the end of a word in "Like" "Snake" etc). Am I meant to be explaining that to her or should she just read the entire word and learn it?

I can understand building up a catalogue of "High frequency words" but it doesn't even seem like the same word is consolidated so isn't she bound to forget them anyway?

AS I said I'm not really worried she seems neither particularly advanced nor particularly behind but I was curious about what I should be doing with these words and the reading books in general. Should I read each one once? Read it a few times?

The easiest way for you to work out the phonics is to think of the sounds you can hear when you say the word and match the spellings to the sounds.

Like gas three sounds /l//ie//k/ spelt li-e k snake has four sounds /s/ /n/ /ae/ /k/ spelt s n a-e k

Mrz, I find this phonics debate really interesting. I learnt though what I imagine would be called look and say, my daughter through mixed methods, phonics was just been introduced, my ds through the phonics system but probably disrupted by me by just letting him read my old books and his sisters books.We are all keen readers, my DD probably picked it up the fastest, but ds is a better speller (is that due to phonics?)

Most things in education seem cyclical, is there any legitimate criticism of phonics and do you think new or old methods will eventually replace them in time?

There isn't any reason why a child taught phonics can't access any books they want. What we wouldn't do is ask a child to read books that are beyond their current capability independently just as you wouldn't ask a child learning to swim to swim the channel.

mrz - I was advising on the basis that most parents do not have time to learn phonics that thoroughly. That's quite a detailed explanation of phonics you've given there for the word 'like'. Are parents realistically going to go into that much detail? And should we expect them to?

Also, there's nothing wrong with helping and telling children the odd difficult word, else reading becomes a chore and the plot of the story is lost through constant pausing.

I have an English degree,( literature rather than language) and i agree dressing I find some of the explanations of phonics difficult. Maybe it easier to understand if you cant read already!

We must not overlook the fact that childen learn differently either. If phonics is the only method taught, what about children who do not learn very well through sounds? In my dyslexia training we learned that some children learn visually, and really struggle learning through sound.

I still find it bizarre that there seems to be the opinion that we do it completely phonics or completely a different method. One is 'right' or 'wrong' (which changes depending on what period of history you look at).
Whilst phonics is the favoured method at the moment - we need to also be aware that it won't suit every child.

I think people forget that phonics was the method used for teaching reading and writing since written language was invented and apart from a brief detour in the twentieth century where an untested flawed theory grew into what we refer to as whole word and Look and Say. It isn't about old or new it's about what evidence shows works.

I got some books over Christmas that are 1+ level and the same. Already had to teach some sounds and now having to do split digraphs as the books are older versions and include words like have and come.

I ended up buying the jollly phonics text book. It has been brilliant as it has all the sounds as DS have learnt them and I still refer to it now, 3 years later that dd is in reception.

It meant that as dd came across words she didn't know how to sound (e.g. With Split diagraphs) then I could explain them (she keeps trying to read everything and no doubt will race ahead once she's mastered it all).

We also subscribe to the reading chest to get the right level books.

I agree phonics is a good method Mrz - but you need a bit of both. You obviously disagree. But some children will get left behind if you just teach one way only. Children are different. The most important thing is that redaing is enjoyable.

Dressinggowndays, totally agree

Definitely different strokes.

I can't believe that phonics was exclusively used to teach children read before a brief period in the 20th century.children and adults must have learnt though mixed methods as well, reading psalms and nursery rhymes which they were familiar anyway , as well as grammars and formal teaching.

All taught through phonics

"- but you need a bit of both" what are both?

I will change that phrase to - 'you need to teach phonics, but not exclusively', as you are suggesting. Maybe the word 'bit' was misleading. I'm sure you are quite aware of other methods - visual repetition is what I'd advised parents to do for more difficult words that do not fit easy phonics learning (which they will be taught in schools anyway).

Are you testing me? ha ha. I taught in a well performing state school in years 5 and 6, for 12 years before taking a break 3 years ago to have my own children. I specialised in teaching children with dyslexia. Most of the parents of children in my classes would just have glazed over if I'd tried to explain phonics to them in the amount of detail you have. I also know, it definitely did not work with specific children.

I'm interested in what you mean by not exclusively

We are, after all, advising a parent here, who is reading with their child at home. Lets keep it in perspective. The main, detailed teaching will take place in school.

I'm baffled that you are not getting it.....
Never mind.

Yes were advising parents how to support their children not promoting failed methods

I'm dyslexic and find phonics a nightmare for various reasons.
When my son was young I let the school do what it wanted but we read real books every night. I read to him and we climbed mountains, fought dragons and found our way out of wardrobes. He loves reading and is doing his A levels.
As a parent your job is to make your child love books. Phonics pah!

Yet phonics is acknowledged by all the major dyslexic organisations as the best way of learning

Dyslexia is an umbrella term. I have auditory processing issues so I can't always ' get' the sound they are banging on about.

Also, you need to remember the rules and I struggle to retain them. You know "an o is an oo except in cow or poo" or whatever bollocks it is. See i can't remember.

Anyway, somethings work for some people etc. The magic of stories is universal.

As I said earlier there aren't any rules in phonics ..there are 44 sounds and approx 180 ways they can be spelt in English much less to remember than over a million words as wholes