Maths : feel sorry for these parents, can I do anything about this?

[SSShakeTheChi]

The background is:
Our maths teacher probably isn't great. My impression of her is that she looks like the painfully shy type. She looked a bundle of nerves at the first parents evening and seemed very defensive.

My dd says she spends a lot of time screaming in class. (For maths the class is divided into two groups but despite the smaller size, obviously dc are being loud or somehow disruptive if the teacher is screaming a lot). Dd doesn't seem to mind the teacher but hates the screaming, hates maths.

Dd absolutely didn't get the maths they were being taught (year 1). In the end I taught it to her myself so she's ok with it now. I teach her at home, she then goes over it again in school and we're on top of it. Ideally I'd prefer her to learn it well in school but that's the way of it. I assumed it was just dd who was having problems with it but apparently not.

Other parents have the same problem. Their dc don't understand what is going on in maths, they're totally lost. I think a) she has trouble controlling the class although the class teacher doesn't b) she can't explain maths very well if no one is getting it c) she's very defensive so difficult to approach

sorry about all the blurb but if you can stick with me this is the problem now:

Another dm told me the teacher had screamed at her ds in class because he couldn't understand what they were supposed to do. She'd already explained it twice (so obviously she was annoyed) but she shouted "Am I speaking Chinese or what?!" Surely that isn't ok with year 1 pupils?

Anyway the father went to the school, the secretary called the teacher down to reception and he had it out with her. I think he was furious so I don't know how he approached it. She said, she's only human. The problem is ds who needs to see a therapist. He's the only dc in the class who cannot understand maths (!?! - none I know of can) and is the only one who cannot add and divide numbers up to 20 in his head. I asked around, none of them can. She says he is still using his fingers to count (after 6 months of school which mine also does) and that means he has major problems.

Obviously the parents were very offended and they told her they wouldn't speak to her anymore, she had to communicate with them via the class teacher or in writing and that if their son was screamed at again for not understanding (as opposed to disrupting), they would take him out of the school. So it's a real mess already.

Should I/can I do something to fix this situation? If so, what? We have a parents' evening coming up end of Feb.

I really think that you ought to call a meeting with the head teacher. I have taught year one and in my experience it is never necessary to scream at children. She sounds a little out of her depth - is she a newly qualified teacher? What type of school is this?

yes I also wondered what type of school it was - yr 1 have normally had 18mths in school by now and a separate maths teacher at this level is unheard of in these parts.

I think maybe parents who are concerned should ask to meet with the head.

She sounds like a lunatic who is completely out of her depth. Sounds like she needs to be removed. Nobody should ever be screaming at 5 year olds, or making derogatory comments about their understanding.

We're in Germany and it's a normal German school. They start here age 6 so they've been at school for 6 months now. Our dc will have her for maths for the first two years.

As far as I know but I don't really know much, she has been teaching for a few years at least. I think she's around 35-40ish. She has 2 dc of her own, the youngest is 7 and attends our school.

I suggested they spoke to the class teacher who I find great but the class teacher wrote them a note home saying ds hadn't finished his maths homework so she obviously knows all about it already from the maths teacher and it might make things worse. I would really like to somehow de-escalate the situation without making the maths teacher look a fool but I am worried about all this screaming too.

whatever is she is expecting of the children if "only" one child cannot add and subtract within twenty. In DS's year 1 class he is the only one who can do it and he has the "maths gene" which is very strong in our family

my suggestion would be to meet with the head and express your concerns, without the maths teacher attending. The head may be totally unaware of the concerns even if the class teacher is.

Ok I didn't know if it was too drastic to go to the head. I'm meeting the dm for coffee on Friday (they have this week off school) and I'll see how she feels about that. She told me several parents of older dc in the school had a bad opinion of this teacher (teaching ability I think) so perhaps the head does have some idea of the problems already.

I am wondering if I should offer to go along so they feel less alone with this but I can see it all backfiring on me and dd IYSWIM. Well, I thought I'd offer to help her ds get on top of the maths at least. She doesn't feel able to teach him herself. Perhaps if he is struggling less with the teaching material that might turn things around.

I have no idea why the teacher thinks the other dc can do sums in their head. She told these parents all other dc do an exercise in maybe 3 minutes whereas the ds in question needs 10. My dd told me the boys next to her just copy what she's done (with all the mistakes too of course) and from what I gather, they pretty much all copy each other's work.

Any meeting you have would be confidential. I would be concerned about the negative impression the children are having of school and maths. Not a good way to start out at this age.

Oh OK if you are abroad that makes more sense.

Agree with others she sounds totally out of order. A meeting with the head for a group of you sounds like a good idea. Can you ask around to see if any other parents are worried?

Yes, I can do that but I would have to be careful how I go about it. I don't want to create a situation where a lot of irate parents are ganging up on the maths teacher because that won't go anywhere good. We have some quite strong types I've noticed, lots of lawyers and manager types, amongst the parents and I can imagine them going too far IYSWIM.

I think it would be a good idea to meet with the Head before the parent evening end of Feb and see how that goes. Think I will suggest this family write a letter to the Head, outlining the problems and the concerns they have, requesting a meeting to discuss those problems. That way maybe things won't get too heated.

I know the dm is not really prepared to smooth the waters with the maths teacher now. She sounds very angry still.

I would perhaps make a seperate appointment and with the head and discuss your childs progress and problems with maths, if you tag on to thse parents you might just look like you are ganging up on the teacher and joining the bandwagon.

Speak to other concerned parents and encourage them to also meet with the head to discuss their worries.

This will help the head to build a better picture of the problem. It sounds like the teacher is seroiusly failing to cope, perhaps she hasn't taught this age before and is struggling to teach at their level, she really sounds like she needs guidance and direction, so you could suggest that the head sits in on a few classes to see how they feel teacher is dealing with class.

year 1!, that appalling!, ive helped out in dd's school in year one and not many of them could do what shes expecting!..what a horrible woman, she is in the wrong proffesion, she doesnt want to teach the children, she wants to shout at them and you cant expect children of that age to pick up something straight away some thing that she, an adult who has trained in this proffesion has known all along!.fgs, she needs to be diciplined by the head, she is entirely inadequate to 'teach'!

Actually I'm thinking I might try and make an appointment to see the maths teacher myself to discuss my own dd's problems with maths without mentioning any of this, just to see what she has to say and ask whether I can sit in on a class (apparently that is possible here) to see how maths is taught nowadays (get some tips for my own teaching at home).

That might give me a more balanced picture of the whole thing. Last time I called her when dd was having so many problems with maths, she never called me back though! I know she isn't keen to have dp sit in on her classes, but I'd really like to see what goes on in there.

I agree with Skribble.

Thanks everyone for all the comments. Don't want to make a huge faux pas here and end up making everything worse, so it's great to hear some outsider advice.

That's a good idea skribble. I can do that.

good idea to meet 'her' and sit in, she sounds unstable anyway from what you said when she met other parents!

SSShake, how awful I can't believe she's such a terrible teacher. Poor dd and you having to struggle with that on top of battling through the German.

Ds2 is Y2 now and I recall (and have just checked his old Y1 maths books) this time last year they were still counting on fingers and could not add up to 20 in their heads with any assurance, still can't sometimes!

That aside (though tis a blatant defensive lie to that boy's parents imo) she sounds like she needs to change her whole teaching methods. Do you have Elternsprecher? Thought it was standard here - one (with a deputy) parent elected at the start of the school year who acts as a communication channel. Can be for organising activities and useful for concerns/complaints where more parents or children are involved, as here. That way it doesn't focus the complaint on one child's parents.

We did this lately as lots of ds1's Y4 class were (rightly) fed up with their new (trainee) PE teacher. If you don't have Elternsprecher perhaps you could suggest electing one at the parents' evening?

Def agree having a meeting with the maths teacher about dd's progress, it'll give you a better idea of how to handle her when you have a longer talk, imo. Write her a note instead of calling, easiest way, I've found.

Need any assertive (stroppy ) words? Ask me I've had lots of practice lately

Well, you know fink, I hate this screaming business and I know dd was upset by it all. She isn't screamed at personally but she told me when the kindergarten teacher screamed at someone (! eek), she'd turn around to the other dc and apologise. Dd told me this teacher screams if a dc speaks, even once, during maths. She sits next to a boy who I think is probably a real chatterbox. She told me the teacher screamed out his name and stamped her foot. That sounds so odd to me, I can't imagine stamping my foot, can you?!

Mind you I think he does talk a lot. His mother told me the class teacher had moved him next to a French boy for other lessons because the French boy doesn't speak German yet!

I don't like it but I could let the screaming pass because who knows, maybe she's going through some major crisis at home. I can cope with the ineffective teaching because I have the time and energy to teach dd myself, although I could do without it. What I really really disliked was her telling this boy's parents he was the only one having problems and needed to see a therapist. I just find that so nasty. I wasn't there and I only know what I was told but I really don't understand why she would say that, do you?

Have you been sharpening your knives?! So how is it going your battle? Have you had word back from the specialist yet?

Oh, the Elternsprecher.
Personally I think they'd be a waste of time. They didn't want to do the job and both of them seem the type who want to keep out of any controversy for fear of getting problems themselves with the teacher. I know 2 fathers approached them about another issue (security) and they refused to even bring the subject up. You know how it is, everyone wants to be on the right side of the authorities , however much they grumble about them privately.

You shouldn't have to tolerate the screaming or the bad teaching If the Elternsprecher are that bad (and yep, I know the type) then I think you should bring up the maths lessons at the parents' evening. Or ring them up and ask if they've had other complaints, that way no one can say you didn't follow the correct channels Raising such things at those meetings can be scary in a group of stern-looking Germans but you could always introduce the topic by saying your dd finds the lessons loud and take it from there. You may find other parents chip in too - if you're lucky. If not, they'll all look at the floor.

Still, you've got this woman for another year and a half and if it were me I'd kick myself for not trying. I was too passive far too long, partly language inhibitions, now I'm much more assertive cos I was forever berating myself for being wimpy in Germany (novel title there) You have to judge the situation of course and you sound like such a sensitive person. I'm just that the teacher is shouting at Y1 children and stamping her foot. Crisis, my foot, that's unacceptable

Oh, as to the downright nasty comment, sounds like a spiteful defensive comeback from her. Can imagine parent shouting and her shouting back, tempers do fray v quickly re school I've found as both sides are armed with their belief that they're in the right before they even speak to each other. Maybe she said he needed Foerderunterricht for maths, not therapy. If she's painfully shy and insecure then she'll be that much more defensive. I can't believe the other children aren't complaining about her.

Specialist results next week. Right now chewing fingernails waiting for our 1st choice (Gesamtschule) to give ds1 a place. Nothing in today's post, so must come tomorrow or Friday at the latest.

Oh now I'm worried. I hate these confrontational situations, I really have to psyche myself up for them. I think living here has definitely made me more assertive but I hate having to do this kind of thing. You know what will happen, don't you? If I bring this up at the parents' evening, all the other parents, including the family I've mentioned, will look away as if it is nothing to do with them and they have no problems with the maths.

If I go and see the head, it'll be turned around as if I am the one with the problem.

I'd feel most comfortable speaking to the class teacher about it but that would be putting her in an uncomfortable position vis-a-vis the maths teacher, wouldn't it? I might speak to her and ask her for advice on how to approach it, not sure if that's the correct way forward really...

Phew. Well I'm speaking to this other mum on Friday and I'll see what we come up with. It's reassuring to hear other people say they find this isn't ok, at least then you know you're not off your rocket wanting to change things! However, I'm starting to really worry now whether I shouldn't change schools if this is so bad.

from what he dm said, he already gets Foerderunterricht, i.e. he leaves the maths class and does 1-1 with another teacher, I don't know how often. They haven't told us anything about this but we have another parents' evening in 2 weeks time so I'll ask about that.

Didn't mean to worry you Did sound a bit bossy, tho, sorry! More from speaking sternly to self to speak up.

Speak to the other mum and hopefully she'll be positive about mentioning it. I'd def speak to the maths teacher as that's normal to have a progress talk and from the sound of it the class teacher will be aware there are problems. Wouldn't go to the head either as you are supposed to deal with it at class level so don't worry about any "uncomfortable position"

I always have to psych myself too and figure out which words to use, even then I blush loads and my German is always worse - I can hear my accent going to pot and sounding v English. You can just wait and see if it comes up at all, and if not, decide then how to play it. You could always just ask if the class will always be in 2 groups for maths and see if anyone else picks it up.

It's fine to tell me what to do! That's why I'm asking!

OK I've calmed down now. What I really wanted to do was effect some kind of reconciliation between these parents and the maths teacher because I find things bad the way they are: her saying those things about their ds, screaming at him for not understanding and them refusing to have direct contact to her anymore. They need to work together for the next 2 years unless ds changes schools.

I also can't help thinking, despite her classroom behaviour, the maths teacher can't be a monster. Imagine teaching maths to other people's kids all day and then going home to deal with your own dc. I'd rather shoot myself in the foot! I was wondering if there was any realistic way she could be helped to deal with the classroom situation. I really don't think it's a disruptive or difficult class though and, as I said, she only has half the class at a time for maths.

My conclusion now though is that it should be tackled and I would LOVE someone else to tackle it! Thanks for all the advice, I'll chew it over a bit and see how I take it from here.