"Growth mindset" - is school using this the wrong way?

[SansaClegane]

My DS is 7 and in year 3, he has just moved up to a new school (junior school) which is linked to his infant school.
They have introduced the "growth mindset" thing a year or so ago and I'm fine with that; however at the new school I'm not sure they're selling it right. Let me try to explain.
DS is bright and naturally academic and usually needs a bit more of a challenge at school. I asked him how it's going, what they are doing in Maths. He told me what they had been doing that day and that it was all a bit easy. So I asked if he had told the teacher this and maybe got something more challenging to work on. He became very uncomfortable and said no, because "if I find things easy that means I haven't got a growth mindset". He was upset about this as he strives to do things right, and in his opinion finding things easy is the wrong thing to do
So a few days later I asked him again about school, and he explained to me that in order to learn you have to "fall into the learning pit" first (i.e. Not be able to do something) and then "work hard" to get out of it; and if you are able to do something straight away again that's "wrong" and means you're not learning?!
I find it worrying that DS now thinks there's something wrong with him or being able to grasp new concepts quickly. Surely the school can't mean to convey that this is so, but it seems that is what they tell the children?! I've chatted to another parent, whose daughter is also very bright, and she has reported a similar story from her DD.
I guess my question is, do I seek to speak with the teacher now (maybe just to clarify what's going on and how they word this at school), or am I making too big a deal and wait until parents' evening (November)?
On a side note, the work they do at school does seem to be really easy for year 3 and there seems to be no differentiation. DS has had two maths homeworks so far and they both were variations of "find the biggest number" - one was just a line of 5 numbers which had to be sorted from smallest to biggest! They are also learning to "count in 4s and 8s" when my DS is very confident with his times tables up to 12x.

Okay, so the full quote is: When this happens, I say, “Whoops. I guess that was too easy. I apologize for wasting your time. Let's do something you can really learn from!” ― Carol S. Dweck

I'm not seeing where you think I am showing a lack of understanding. Maybe you could explain?

Work at a new school is ALWAYS set a little bit easy ime. Children are out of their comfort zone, settling into a new environment, learning new routines. So the classroom work should help to build their confidence at this time of the year. Not tip them into a fecking pit of despair.

Growth Mindset sounds horribly cheesy and I would waste a lot of my time rolling my eyes and muttering FFS if I had to endure it at school, work or anywhere else.

I am sure there is plenty of common sense underneath it all but its the dressing it up all and wankfying it that gets my goat.

Anyway I am off to patent the phrase 'If at first I don't succeed, try, try and try again.' See you all on my training course.

It's almost definitely not what your child is being taught, but what's taught and what is actually learned are two very different things. You'll be helping the teacher out by letting him/her know about the misconception your son has picked up.

You should definitely get in touch about the work not being challenging enough too. I'm a teacher and, if I hadn't picked up on that already, I would want to know. I like to think I would pick up on it though

I'm a secondary teacher and students who lack resilience are a big issue. The whole growth mindset thing is an attempt to deal with that. A lot of it is about avoiding ego involvement in learning, as this can be a barrier.

For example, we get lots of bright students at A-level who have coasted at GCSE. They've always been told they're smart, been on the G&T register (the term G&T makes me grit my teeth), and received lots of recognition for their innate intelligence. They come to think of that intelligence as being a key part of their identity, and actively avoid challenge because any perceived 'failure' on their part would be a blow to their ego and damage their self-worth. These students almost invariably don't achieve their potential at A-Level.

I've taught a lot of students who won't revise for their exams. Generally it's due to this: if they fail, but haven't revised, they can still tell themselves they're smart and would have got an A* if they had chosen to try. The thought of effort followed by failure is terrifying to them. They're not lazy or thick - they just lack resilience.

The opposite, of course, are students who actively seek out their weaknesses and aim to address them. They're disappointed by failure (and by 'failure' I don't, of course, mean abject failure - just a low mark on an essay or whatever) but not put off by it. They work hard even when the going is tough. These students frequently (usually?) overtake their 'more able' peers.

I quite like the 'pit' metaphor - sometimes being stuck does feel like being in a pit, although I don't know if that's more true for older students when the stakes are higher. In exam season students cry, and stress, and work late into the night, but if their hard work results in success they can be really proud of then it's worth it in the end. Calling it 'the pit' is recognition that learning isn't always happy-clappy fun time - learning is hard, and sometimes lonely and miserable, but we've all been there (I remember long, desperate nights at university when I felt like the only person awake in the world) and we get it. Just because you're in the 'the pit' doesn't mean you're stuck in there on your own though - there are people to help you pull yourself out.

Interestingly, I once did a questionnaire on growth mindset with a group of Y8s (not my own class). The only student who thought his intelligence was fixed and that he would never get better had quite severe SEN. Really sad.

Wow- read this with interest. I have told my daughter to do the gold ( ie top level) work, check her answers, reread for legibility then ask for the extension work in maths. If no extension work is on the white board, and the teacher doesn't notice her hand up, she reads her reading book. Is my parenting method bad?? [That's rhetorical]. She can't be resilient about work she isn't given. Hate this system. No growth mindset or resilience for her she's just bored. This is Y5 btw.
But I am giving it one more week so I am not 'that' parent.

www.learningspy.co.uk/research/is-growth-mindset-pseudoscience/

There's critique of growth mindset and Sen somewhere too... An interesting read.

Arse, I can't find it again.

I think the issue is that often stuff like this gets swallowed whole by slt with little critical engagement. then it's delivered in insets and then we have to show we're using it in class.

Engagement with the critical reviews of theories like growth mindset would help us to deliver them properly. Instead it's up to cantankerous, cynical old buggers like me to google 'mindset theory + critique' before training days!

Id be interested in that one, oneofthe. Though I could guess what it might say.

In my mind, it's of great value for staff to be aware of what mindset and techniques or approaches that help to foster this, but not especially highlight it or actively teach it to pupils.

It's yet another 'thing' to get wrong or be judged on, which is another oxymoron imo.

I see teachers getting the wrong end of the stick and messing up discipline and approaches enough as it is.

I've realised I mostly have a growth mindset from the types of school and home experiences I had without much awareness. I don't think I would have had the maturity to reflect on it as much as I can as an adult, and even that was tough to actually visualise what 'it' was.

I remember really taking to methodology in history at ALevel, and this might have been a good time to be aware of my 'mindset'.

Teens and children worry enough about who they are and if they're good enough. Fix the culture of the school so they can breathe and grow, don't add an extra layer of terminology to have to wade through.

I mean this as a must for the pupils who might really need that self belief and growth mindset; they struggle enough to get their heads around what ever the latest addition to spag is without extra labels. Their internal labels may be so ingrained they only recognise the fixed mindset. They don't need to know the details, they need nurturing and inspiring.

In summary, let the kids be kids and educate the teachers to know how best to facilitate and foster their mindsets without them even knowing.

Oneofthe - I do that kind of Internet research too...

The whole point is they need to know it, otherwise how would they know when they aren't using it and adjust themselves :p

I'm not a teacher but am a huge fan. It's really helped me to have conversations with my daughter - who was prone to give up when things felt too hard.

I was one of those students terrified of failure as described so brilliantly up thread. Growth mindset has enabled me to develop my own skills as an adult and not be so afraid of failure - in fact it's something to be welcomed and an opportunity for learning. I (almost) enjoy being in the pit now, as it's a positive sign of progress.

Wow, this thread has taken off a bit since I last checked!

Just came back to update. I finally hoiked up my big girl pants and asked to speak to the teacher today.
She quickly agreed that he'd got the wrong message about the growth mindset, and encouraged him to say straight away when something is too easy (which he'd not done as he was ashamed of it!). But the other problem than became quite apparent - the work really is too easy for him, and the teacher is not 'allowed' to move him onto the next topic. They follow this new maths scheme which intends to make all children have "a very secure knowledge of the basics" and according to the teacher, they really progress in baby steps so currently they are doing addition and bridging through, but the only challenge she is allowed to give him is doing this with bigger numbers? But not anything that would really challenge him, as he cant deviate from the topic or move on to the next one (as they have to stick to contents for their year and no longer tap into the contents for higher years).
However the teacher also told me they're having a staff meeting about this new maths scheme and she was glad I raised my concerns as she can now discuss them with the other teachers/ head. She admitted that the down side of the scheme is that higher ability children get slightly neglected as they can't be pushed to their limits or challenged within the scheme.

So, while I think DS now understands the growth mindset concept better, and no longer feels he's in the wrong when finding things easy, the problem remains that (at least in maths) there won't be much to learn/ grow for him this year!

She's misinterpreted the maths scheme then. Give him problems to solve, missing number puzzles, give me a sum with and answer of..., etc. Children can be challenged if the scheme is applied correctly. I'd wager she's had little to no training and only heard "don't go above this level".

Actually she has totally got the wrong end of the maths scheme.

Giving bigger numbers is NOT challenging more able children. Anyone who just gives bigger numbers of the same thing is misguided at best.

There's a concept called HOTS not MOTS - Higher Order Thinking Skills not More Of The Same. It seems reasonable that they don't want the children to just motor through the curriculum - but they do need to have something else available for those who have mastered the current topic. The NRICH and Wild maths websites have open-ended problems that could be made available to the children once they have completed a particular topic.

CRYING at 'hots not mots'. Did no one think 'hang on, mot is a word for vagina, can we call it something else'. Talk about thinking outside the box.