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I might discuss DS moving up a year with teacher...

147 replies

toffeenose · 10/09/2016 10:25

DS has just gone into Y2 at a very small school. Last year Y1 and Y2 were taught together and DS made lots of friends with children in the year above - his birthday is the very beginning of September and many of them are just weeks older. There are only 8 other pupils in Y2 and many of them are summer born so seem much younger than him. He doesn't really have any friends in his class and has come home very sad, which is not like him at all. The break times are staggered so he doesn't even get to play with his friends till the end of the day.

The school is independent and follows the national curriculum but it is guided by the belief that in the early years, children will come to reading and writing in line with their development, so although they are taught to read, children who are not keen will focus on stories and words but not be pushed to progress with phonics until they are ready. DS is not reading or writing.

I want to talk to his teacher about the possibility of moving him up to Y3 to be with his friends. There are 3 children in the year above who are not yet reading or writing so that is not in itself an impediment to him moving.

Would I be completely mad to put this on the table as an option? The only reason really is that socially in his class he is pretty much on his own as the three children who he was friends with in reception have left. I would be willing to pay for a 1:1 to work with him in class.

I would just be interested to hear people's views.

OP posts:
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SharonfromEON · 10/09/2016 22:06

I don't pretend to understand your school ...

I do know my DS had Dysgraphia and even from reception he was unable to keep up with the wrting ( not diagnosed at that point) ..He was moved to the lower group despite his high level of reading and comprehension as they considered it better for him to be top of the bottom group that bottom of the top group..

If one of the things you like about the school is the confidence is it really going to help him been bottom of the class.

Another point.. I know you said you are reading Harry potter but are you reading much simpler books too. My DS despite the fact he could read before school still gets put off with thick books. I imagine for a child who can't read harry potter seems unreachable.

MissWimpyDimple · 10/09/2016 22:19

I'm struggling to see how he is accessing the curriculum without reading or writing.

I'm thinking through the school day and there seems to be very little that doesn't involve some aspect of reading or writing. Maths for example. Can he read and write numbers?

I would be extremely concerned if after 3 years of school he can't read and write.

I definitely would NOT be looking at moving him up

toffeenose · 10/09/2016 22:46

It's not 3 years, it's 2. He's just starting year 2 now.

It's not a montessori school.

Miss I appreciate that you're struggling to understand how they do it, but I'm afraid you'll just have to either believe me or not when I say that they do. They have lots of time and patience and a belief in each child's potential so they celebrate effort not results.

OP posts:
toffeenose · 10/09/2016 22:53

good point sharon read do all sorts of books together and his much older brother reads to him too. He still likes his old story books. We've done lots of traveling with him so he's seen quite a lot. His speech and his sense of humour is very good and he's able to articulate his feelings clearly.

When I ask about learning to read he says he thinks he'll do it very soon.

If i try to work on phonics with him he messes around and tries to get out of it or just says things he knows are wrong. if I try to incentivise him (ok, bribe) he gets stubborn. I really am trying!

OP posts:
LittleBearPad · 10/09/2016 22:59

You appear to be chucking your money away OP.

SharonfromEON · 10/09/2016 23:07

When I ask about learning to read he says he thinks he'll do it very soon

This to me my DS would hear he had a choice..Reading , writing, swimming are the kind of things that are not optional in my world unless there is a reason they can't...

Have you looked at phonic books, DVD's... Making time to sit down and do them with him special time..Although I am at a loss what the schools input is in this..

Haudyerwheesht · 10/09/2016 23:10

Well if you're moving school soon anyways it would do him good to learn to be adaptable now.

Fwiw ds could barely read at just 7 - I mean he could read a bit but didn't enjoy it. Now he's 9 and on Harry Potter but also interestingly is looking like he might be dyslexic...

Dd on the other hand just loves to learn and has been reading since she started at almost 5.

However, I think school isn't just about leaning to read it's also about learning to do stuff when asked and understanding consequences etc. It sounds as if he would enjoy being able to read if he gives it a shot and so I'd really be needing him to be giving phonics his best shot now and not really giving him an out. It can be done in a fun way, it doesn't need to be torture.

I think I'd especially feel this way if I was planning on moving schools at some point as you are.

ScarfForAGiraffe · 10/09/2016 23:10

I think they're really letting your son down and you'd be better looking elsewhere.

CodyKing · 10/09/2016 23:17

Codyking if you need a 1:1 in a private school you have to pay unless you get funding. Paying for a one to one was just one idea DH and I came up with because if DS were to go up to the next class (unlikely I know) then it wouldn't be fair if he took up all the TA's time.

Why pay twice? Pay a private tutor to home Ed - seriously your DS needs help!'

You are paying for a service and they are fobbing you off - what happens when he fails SATS are you asked to leave? Or wait till Y6 and find he's not going to X or Y school?

Even the most reluctant Y1 can read unless they have SEN

CodyKing · 10/09/2016 23:18

*SEN being difficult - not all SEN children struggle to read

Ditsy4 · 11/09/2016 01:20

No, I had three last year that couldn't read despite all the input from school ( none from home) they could only read a few words. One has now been assessed but one other was fine. Sometimes despite the input they don't learn then suddenly it all clicks as happened to a Year five last year. After six weeks he had caught up and even surpassed two.
Read to him and he will have a love of books. Do lots of rhyming ones like Hairy McClary.
One of the most important things to learn is to socialise. I afraid he wouldn't be allowed to move at our school. You can ask but don't expect.

mrz · 11/09/2016 06:19

We all celebrate potential but we never squander it.

GoldFishFingerz · 11/09/2016 06:25

Keep him in his own year group and give him time to build up a relationship with his peers. You can help with play dates.

Those boys in the class above might leave, new boys might arrive in his year group.

He can play with his mates at break times but learn to develop other relationships in class time

BooAndM · 11/09/2016 06:48

When I read this I wondered whether it's the same school my kids go to!! Grin (sounds similar in many ways although I think ours does encourage reading by year 1/2)
If so though, it is a fabulous school!

My ds was moved up a year in some subjects and then in year 6 he didn't repeat but worked to an enhancement program which was great and tailored to his needs.
I'd ask and the worst they can say is no.

mrz · 11/09/2016 06:55

"What, this bit?

form new circuits for cultural inventions from older, genetically programmed, component processes that make up vision, language, cognition, and emotional systems. Each component part is necessary for the whole circuit to function well enough to achieve expert reading"

Did you miss the first and last part of that principle Iced ?

Human beings were never meant to read. Reading is a cultural invention. The "reading brain" represents the semi -miraculous capacity of the brain to form new circuits for cultural interventions ... Teaching methods need to incorporate knowledge about each of these systems ...

I might discuss DS moving up a year with teacher...
SolomanDaisy · 11/09/2016 07:42

Putting aside the reading issue, I think you just need to wait and see how the friendships develop. My DS was moved up a group for the last half of last year and I was worried that he was being separated from his friends. It was fine, he just made new friends with older kids. Then I worried this year when he's not in a class with those kids or the original friends and again it's fine. This is a small school too, though not as small as yours! One of the limitations is the kids have fewer people to make friends with, but they just have to get used to that. Moving him up for temporary social reasons when he's not ready academically doesn't seem like a good idea.

IcedVanillaLatte · 11/09/2016 07:45

I'm not sure how you think those contradict me. Obviously I'm not going to copy and paste the entire document in here. Of course reading is not a natural process. Neither is riding a bike. Human beings were never meant to ride a bike. Or drive a car. Or operate a computer. Before you can learn to ride a bike, you need to have developed good fine and gross motor control, the ability to deduce others' intentions, etc.

Look, the brain is rewiring itself all the time. Literally all the time. Everything you experience, everything you do, everything you commit to and retrieve from memory - all of it. That's how it works. Rewiring the brain is not a special thing.

"Teaching methods need to incorporate knowledge about each of these systems" - yes. The systems which need to already exist in order to be used and drawn on in the process of "rewiring the brain" (i.e. learning).

Argh.

mrz · 11/09/2016 07:48

Perhaps you should red what I've actually written Iced

IcedVanillaLatte · 11/09/2016 08:03

I don't think we're ever going to understand each other or agree here, and I'm fed up of your patronising attitude, so I'm out. Enjoy your overweening sense of superiority. and inability to actually explain what you mean instead of silently throwing PDFs at me Confused

mrz · 11/09/2016 08:11

I'm sorry you think I was throwing PDFs at you. The PDF was for Rafa who said they hadn't read Proust and the Squid (and anyone else who is interested) feel free to ignore if you aren't

mamapants · 11/09/2016 09:01

I am not getting in to all the various side debates on this thread.
I agree with others who don't agree moving up if he is struggling a little with the work is a good idea as it won't do his confidence much good but talking to teachers is a good idea to see what they suggest in terms of helping friendships.
But wanted to add a lot of people are suggesting that age 7is so late. He's struggling, being failed etc. My nieces and nephews were all about 7 or 8 starting to read, when it suddenly just clicked. They are all doing really well at school across all subjects now. I know a few people who say the same, their children just weren't getting it and then suddenly around 7 suddenly it seemed to make sense.

IveAlreadyPaid · 12/09/2016 12:25

I think the school sounds great.

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