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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Confused over Pupil Premium

81 replies

JeffreyNeedsAHobby · 27/04/2016 21:51

Hi everyone,

I'm a single parent and currently earn under £10k pa and receive working tax credits. I was led to believe this made us eligible for funding for primary school as it would be the equivalent of FSM. However after applying to the Council I have been told that BECAUSE I am in receipt of working tax credits I am not eligible.
How does this work? Am I meant to give them up so her school can get funding?

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

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AndNowItsSeven · 27/04/2016 22:51

No the school don't get pupil premium if your income was low before your dd started school.yes if you were on jsa the school would receive pp now and for six years after you stopped claiming jsa.
However you can't just claim jsa.
The no wtc is meant for asylum seekers etc who have low incomes it's either wtc OR fsm/ pp not both.

Original poster

JeffreyNeedsAHobby · 27/04/2016 22:52

I need to dig out the paperwork and look at it all over again and see what I get from WTC. Can I just cancel them if it isn't much? I get Child Tax Credits too.

OP posts:

AndNowItsSeven · 27/04/2016 22:52

Schools have posters up telling kids to claim fsm and use the money to buy a PlayStation so they can get their pp!

AndNowItsSeven · 27/04/2016 22:52

Parents not kids.

AndNowItsSeven · 27/04/2016 22:53

No you can't cancel wtc you would still have an underlying entitlement. You would have to cancel child tax credits as well.

Original poster

JeffreyNeedsAHobby · 27/04/2016 22:58

OK...that really doesn't make any sense. I am supposed to do this so that the school can get support for an already low income family child?

How did this ever actually make sense to the dullards at the top? Why does my school get penalised because I am trying to earn some money (albeit not very successfully, granted)?

OP posts:

AndNowItsSeven · 27/04/2016 23:02

Your child is t penalised the pp money is targeted money. Children from non working families statistically achieve less than children from working families regardless of income.

AndNowItsSeven · 27/04/2016 23:02

*Isn't being penalised

Original poster

JeffreyNeedsAHobby · 27/04/2016 23:03

Just had a chuckle to myself -> Bet the DM won't be putting this thread on their poxy site!

OP posts:

AndNowItsSeven · 27/04/2016 23:03

The school don't want you to do anything they just made a mistake and assumed you were entitled to pp money.

Original poster

JeffreyNeedsAHobby · 27/04/2016 23:06

But, statistically, because I am a single parent she is also clearly at many risks.
I'm nurturing a future school drop out due to expulsion or behavioural issues, drug dealer and teen pregnancy case according to studies too. Do these not hinder her education?

OP posts:

admission · 27/04/2016 23:09

Can we be clear about the funding. Pupils who are in infants are eligible for a free school meal. The school will receive funding based on what the average uptake of infant free school meals is in the school and this is then used to pay the meal provider for the meal. The school as such does not get funding for anything else.
If the pupils is eligible for FSM on the basis of parental income (and I do ot know what the figures are) then the school will receive what is called pupil premium. For primary school age pupils that is currently £1300. PP is an assumption that pupils who are in receipt of FSM are more likely to be lower attaining than pupils who are not in receipt of FSM (big, big assumption). The £1300 is therefore for the school to use in trying to improve the attainment of FSM pupils, so that they are all making better than expected progress. The parent does not get the funding, the school does and the school decides how it is used. Obviously for the school the pupils who are receiving PP the more that they can organise extra activities to boost attainment.

Original poster

JeffreyNeedsAHobby · 27/04/2016 23:16

So, hold on, if I get WTC and CTC am I not eligible for FSM when she turns 7?

OP posts:

AndNowItsSeven · 27/04/2016 23:18

Well year 3 not age 7 as such.

Original poster

JeffreyNeedsAHobby · 27/04/2016 23:30

I'm too tired for this tonight. It makes little sense to me.
If I decide to go to Uni would that work to get out of WTC and CTC?
Half brained idea, just to see what's what. Assuming I could get the student loan of course! Then maybe my child can eat a free meal because I am no longer caught in a ridiculous loop of working for a pittance, balancing everything and being parent of the year? Which of course I am because I work enough to earn below minimum wage...
I'm off to bed. Thank you all for clarifying (although it is ridiculous) the red tape!

OP posts:

daphnedill · 28/04/2016 02:44

Jeffrey, YOU won't get any money - the school might.

mrz · 28/04/2016 06:49

www.gov.uk/guidance/pupil-premium-information-for-schools-and-alternative-provision-settings

Pupil Premium is funding given to schools you don't have to apply for it.

mrz · 28/04/2016 07:05

www.myfreeschoolmeals.com/eligibility

user7755 · 28/04/2016 07:05

Pupil premium isn't that much, and my experience is that your child won't really see that much of it anyway - certainly not in an overt way.

The money tends to get put in a generic post and used to support kids who are struggling - as long as they can demonstrate that the kids who qualify for it are accessing that support it doesn't seem to matter if it isn't specifically targeted at them.

Not sure where the playstation posters come into it all

prh47bridge · 28/04/2016 08:21

It makes little sense to me

As others have said, Pupil Premium is additional funding for schools - £1320 per pupil in primary schools, falling to £935 per pupil in secondary schools. It is one of the measures used to give additional funding to schools with high proportions of children from deprived backgrounds. You don't apply for it nor do you have to do anything to help the school apply for it. You don't receive it. It is not a personal budget you can spend. The school spends it on improving outcomes for pupils from deprived backgrounds generally. It doesn't have to spend any of it specifically on your child. It really shouldn't be a factor in your decisions about what to do.

All children in Reception, Y1 and Y2 are entitled to free school meals. Thereafter most have to pay. The cost varies from LA to LA but is typically around £2 per day. School meals are not compulsory.

Free school meals are an all or nothing benefit. Either you are entitled to them or you aren't. If you receive WTC you aren't entitled to FSM. There is no gradual cut off with the cost of school meals decreasing as your income falls. That makes FSM something of a blunt instrument. However, be careful about trying to change your circumstances so that your child qualifies for FSM. That may well leave you and your child significantly worse off overall.

AndNowItsSeven · 28/04/2016 11:50

The play station posters was encouraging parents who pay for packed lunches to claim fsm and use the money saved to buy a PlayStation.
I would love fsm for my dc regardless of a PlayStation!

bojorojo · 28/04/2016 16:00

user7755. Pupil premium money can be a significant amount of money (easily £250,000 in some schools) and it is not just spent on staff to help all children. It must be targetted and Ofsted will check to see whaat progress the PP children are making and value for money. At our school, we have a profile of each child which looks at the barriers to learning and we try and address those in a variety of ways. It might be self-esteem, lack of prior learning, and a whole range of family background issues. All schools need to be aware of the Sutton Trust findings on how PP money has the most effect and must put on their web site how they spend the money and what benefit to the children it has had.

user7755 · 28/04/2016 17:36

Not my experience at all Bojo, but to be fair we are talking about much much smaller numbers at the schools I have been involved with.

It might be that a theatre group has been paid for to come in and do something about friendships (just an example), all the kids attend and the money is from pupil premium. Because the kids who qualify have had that identified as a need it is considered to be targeted at them, but in reality - a few one to one sessions with a therapist might have been more helpful to the individual but not so much to the other kids. I can see why it is done like that though, just because you are not on the list, doesn't mean that you don't have similar needs.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 28/04/2016 18:21

Ofsted will look at the data for PP children, but that doesn't mean that whatever is put in place is only used for those children. I think in most schools those resources are used for all children who require it. The exception would probably be those schools that use the money to pay for trips or extra-curricular activities.

seasidesally · 28/04/2016 19:56

op,so you want to give up your WTC so the school can claim £1200 or go on JSA so you can get FSM and PP which the school recieve not the parent

you would be far more worse of on JSA than working

i cant understand why you are so hell bent on getting PP

my son is entitled to it,he dosent have FSM as he dosent like them so he brings his lunch from home,ive paid fully for swimming and other activities apart from £30 knocked of a residental,he dosent need extra help so basically he sees very little of PP but thats fine it will go to some child that isnt as fortunate in lots of ways

it is not set aside for a particular chid

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