Are all schools like this?

[FineAsWeAre]

My DS enjoys school but sometimes gets a bit disheartened at not being chosen for things. It seems to always be the same kids who get the lead parts in plays, win competitions or achievement awards etc. and it's always the ones whose mums are on the pta or board of governors and go on all the school trips and things. The teachers always chat to them at the end of the day but never say anything to me if I happen to do the school run occasionally. As a nursery practitioner, if I didn't see a particular parent often I'd make an extra effort to involve them in some way. It almost feels like my son's missing out because I work.

Exactly, Wait, and a huge amount of time, effort and thought goes into making things as fair as we can. So it's a real slap in the face to see all that dismissed with a couple of blase posts on here about it all being handed to kids of the PTA.

IT IS JUST NOT THE CASE!!!! OK????

Why are you so angry at the post about truth, clam? Yes I can understand there are school and teachers who see it as favouritism and avoid it.
But nobody is saying that it happens at your school. It doesn't change anything about great teachers and TAs who put lots of efforts in those things, but it just happens at some school. And I'm not even bothered, because those people who do those jobs deserves some recognition and reward, because they work so hard to do the jobs most parents cannot do.
IT IS JUST THE CASE at my ds's school, OK????

I confess! I don't have a tick list to ensure every child gets a reward at least once in the year. I award rewards on merit not on rota. I have three children in my class with parents who are prominent members of the PTA none have received a reward so far this year because they haven't earned one.
I actually find the idea of giving rewards because it's their turn as bad as the idea of giving rewards to appease parents

Why are you so angry at the post about truth, clam?

Because it's not "truth," that's why. And I surely explained why I'm pissed off about it when I wrote, "huge amount of time, effort and thought goes into making things as fair as we can. So it's a real slap in the face to see all that dismissed ..."

IT IS JUST THE CASE at my ds's school, OK I sincerely doubt that. It might be your perception, but I'd love to hear it from the staff's point of view. I mean do you really think that, during casting sessions, teachers sit around saying, "How about little Jimmy for the lead? I know he wasn't very good and can't sing a note, but his mum did run the Tombola stall at Christmas."

My DD1 is one of those ' always picked' children, but I was never on the PTA or particularly well-known to the school. It was/is just down to her. In fact, DH and I mentioned it to her teacher at parents evening last time and said we were starting to worry that she was being singled out too much. The teacher reassured us that they find ways to reward and praise all the children.

Now DD2 has started at a different school and I'm very involved. This means that DD2 is much less likely to be picked for anything. In my experience schools go out of their way to avoid anything that could look like favouritism. I know this may not be true for all schools though.

Yes I know schools that find ways to reward every child ...Little Jonny gets the star reward this week because he's only told the teacher to F off once a big improvement Jonny well done! ...Dora well done you've managed not to block the toilets with paper towels this week! Ellie-Mae has only been late four times this week but unfortunately isn't here yet!

Wow you really hate me don't you clam?
I haven't dismissed anything you said. I just said it just happens at my ds's school. My ds is one of able child, confident and clear speech, so he get picked all the time. No grudge there. It's just a case of what happens every year since reception. Governors son always gets one of the main role even though he can hardly say the line, or pta mum's daughter gets singing role even there is better singer in the year, something like that.

Wow you really hate me don't you clam?

Eh? Not in the slightest; I just happen to disagree with your claims. But if you have that strong a persecution complex, it kind of proves my point.

Whatever! I used to respect you in the past, but maybe I was wrong.

It's two differing opinions, that's all. I do feel strongly about it, yes, for the reasons I've stated. And if there really are teachers who are so stupid as to cast for the reasons you think, then that makes me despair.

Perhaps it is the other way round.

The kids aren't picked because their parents are on the PTA but the parents are on the PTA because over time their kids have become involved in school sports/drama etc. Because of their involvement, the parents have been asked to volunteer for things, or have realised that if they don't help then things won't get done.

Barbecue at school sports event? Nobody to run it? What's more likely - a random parent gets asked to help... or a parent who will be there anyway because their child is competing? And while they're flipping burgers that parent gets their arm twisted into joining the PTA.

I wonder if our teachers even know who is on the PSA.. I think you never know what parents are talking to the teacher about.. I have regulary had to speak to teachers after school..Not for reasons that get my DS a part or a certificate but only a couple of mums on the playground know why..

We do have some loud gobby parents on the playground..Who tend to have loud gobby children..

I do not see why teachers would have any more they would make children of PSA , governors get bigger parts, awards...What do they gain?

I know that sometimes it seems it's the same children who do everything, choir , orchestra, plays , sports teams, etc BUT they are usually the children who can be bothered to commit to doing these things. We invariably try to get other children involved, but, for instance, you send a paragraph of text ( or whatever) home to be learned, and it doesn't get done. So we end up having to get someone else , who I prepared to do the work, to take over.
Where sports are concerned, you send your strongest team, surely? This will inevitably mean that the same people are picked. Again, they are usually children with a commitment ethic.
I help with a school dance group. Some children started, then didn't come for weeks. Then the minute they heard there was going to be a performance they wanted to start coming again , but we had to say no, because it wasn't fair on the children that attended without fail, and had learned all the routines.Yes they were disappointed, but they have learned that you can't have the glory without putting in some effort.
We don't have a PTA. About 4 children have parents who are governors. They don't get to do everything.

I see your points but it DOES happen. An actual example I can give - At the dcs primary school last year there was a trip to London to see Matilda. Anyone who wanted to go was placed in a 'hat' and 20 names were chosen. Every child chosen had a parent in the PTA.

tart To make that example valid you need to also tell us how many children entered and how many were and were not children of PTA members.

I'm impressed that you have a PTA big enough that 20 children have PTA parents.

I actually think it's not even teachers choice. It could be a pressure from head at my ds's school. But anyway, if your dc's school happens to be one of those unfortunate ones, it's no point complaining, just get involved and your dc may get to be chosen, or accept that's the case. Simple!

At most schools all parents/carers and teachers are automatically members of the PTA, so it's not a particularly exclusive club.

I too am seriously impressed that a school has 20 parents actually on the PTA and that the teachers would know who they were and who their respective DC were. Our PTA is a small group with tons of occasional volunteers - as are most I know. Most teachers I know don't really know who is involved in the PTA never mind remembering who it is when casting for the school play /picking the football team / choir lol - or caring.

As I explained above its a 'friends' association that raise money for the school more than an official pta. There were 150ish children in the school at the time, and as far as I recall it was open for children yr1-yr6. One family had 3 children who were all chosen. It was always the 'friends' children for everything. Even stupid things like best dressed on world book day, star of the week and if the local paper came in it was their kids who were photographed for whatever it was. To look at the school website you'd think they were the only pupils. We'd go to assemblies/award nights/talent shows etc and be able to say who won what before the names were called out.

My DC's primary changed head teacher a few years ago. Under the previous head the PTA kids did get most the plum roles in plays, head of this or that, trips out to represent the school, etc. Under the new head they don't. It's completely fair now as far as I can see. Several PTA reps have moved their kids to another school. It does happen in some schools I'm afraid. So my DD gets parts in plays, represents the school in netball matches and is encouraged to join in despite the fact I'm rarely there at drop off or pick up, and am far too shy to put myself forward even when I am there.

"On the PTA" is a meaningless phrase, I'm afraid.

"Several PTA reps have moved their kids to another school"

This is hilarious. Do some people really live in shit chick-lit-branded novels?

I'm surprised that some people can't imagine that this does happen in some schools. My next door neighbour used to be the deputy head of our local school. She'd left by the time that DD started, but when I said to her that this seemed to happen, she sighed and said, "yes, I know."

I offered to join the PTA but was told that they already had plenty of parents and didn't need new ones starting.

I wrote to the head about one particular thing, and basically got told 'tough' as they weren't intending to do a thing to make kids of working mothers be more involved. Basically, I was meant to spend more time helping out during the day, which was impossible as I worked. I had actually cut back my hours to help out once a week, but that wasn't enough to be part of the in crowd.

Other than that the teachers were all good teachers, DD was happy, but she never did and never would get picked for the 'best' stuff.

I'm not in the UK and thankfully schools where I live don't do all these endless weekly awards and certificates... but

I was under the impression from friends in the UK and what I see on fb that the "Star of the Week" and "Progress" type awards are given out either on an utterly and completely meaningless rota system to make sure everyone gets something at roughly equal intervals or, more often, to motivate and chivvy along the kids who for one reason or another are not self motivated or are generally struggling when they do achieve some progress - meaning they are often rewarded for doing something which would be utterly unremarkable for a lot of other kids.

If that is true then in fact not getting a stream of awards and certificates is a bit of a compliment... though hard to appreciate as telling a young child that that is how it works undermines the system rather if they then spread the word!

AT my youngest's Kindergarten (like an infant school more than a nursery) the PTA equivalent is actually weighted heavily towards 9-5 type working parents who have free evenings but never help in the day and mainly want as much "after school" type provision as possible (extended day) and expensive exclusively organic food, and whole family weekend events, and do not want any of the lovely trips and daytime activities the Kindergarten used to do, because they require variations to drop off and pick up times and requests for daytime volunteers - whom there are always enough of, but its "not fair" as 9-5 working parents cannot do it.

This pisses me off because I am often around in the day but work a lot of weekends and evenings and am about to help in a practical way, know most of the kids, want my kid to have the lovely experiences his older siblings had there, but work evenings so cannot attend meetings in the evenings.

But what can you do - if you want influence you have to be able to go to meetings in the evenings...