Primary school curriculum asking too much of children

[Ipsos]

Hi,

I wondered if I might ask what others think of the pace of work in the primary school curriculum in England the Wales?

My son has been struggling at school and I went to talk to the senco. I said I felt that they were asking too much of ds.

The senco agrees and says that she doesn't know any teacher who thinks that the current fast paced learning is healthy or appropriate for little kids of their age. She says people are always talking about mental health problems in young children as if it was some kind of mystery where it comes from, when in fact it's obvious that it's caused by the school system.

She said there is little that the school can do to shield him from this as they have to meet targets or they will be marked down in their ofsted assessment.

I feel really sad for ds that he is being put through this in his early years, which should be a time of free play and freedom to think and develop naturally.

I wondered if anyone might have ideas on how to solve this problem? If people generally agree that the curriculum is too fast paced, could we perhaps start a petition or something?

Thanks!

It feels like they have thrown less able or children who take longer to learn the basics under the bus for the sake of MORE able children which is bizarre to me.

My child will probably 'fail' the year 2 SATs, she is bright but probably dyslexic (we're starting assesment.)

Yes I agree I see another little piece of my children disappear everytime they come home from school.I know the teachers feel the same and the rate that they are leaving the proffession is proof.I am seriously thinking about homeschooling to be honest but I just don't have the confidence in my self to take the step.

I help in my dds school and you wouldn't believe the hours and hours and hours that get spent with less able kids helping them to get to the minimum required standard. Going over and over the same stuff in small groups and 1-1 e.g phonics etc. Phonics that most kids had Grasped early in reception will be repeated ad nauseum with the less able ones thought year one so that they can get the hang of it eventually.
It's just not true to say that they are 'thrown under a bus'. Go and spend a day in your kids class as the assistant goes through basic phonics yet again with kids that for whatever reason can't grasp it yet. No end of time and energy goes into this. Seriously go and spend some time in school and see for yourself.

I wasn't criticising the staff! I know they are working bloody hard.

The new curriculum is too much, too soon. That is the problem.

"I think what is needed is more differentiation and recognising that all children are different and learn at a different pace and that it is okay not to expect them to all be the same."

Differentiation can be pernicous. It can lead to a culture of low expectations where the dyslexic child is given a word search or colouring rather than given a proper curriuclum. A child is given the label of "low ablity" and set up to fail as they never the syallabus. The child then fails the exam because they have not covered the work and then everyone see that child as stupid.

Interestingly lots of high achieving countries have mixed ablity classes.

I think that more detailed guidance over differentiation would be better.

I have an almost 7yo who can't remember the difference between b and d, and continually muddles up 28 with 82 etc but reads very well and can discuss and problem solve very intelligently. Her teacher's are really good at recognising what she is good at and supporting the areas she struggles massively.

But she isn't being set appropriate spellings to learn because they have so many to cover before the SATs. They can't say let's concentrate on the theory and patterns of times tables this year and then learn them next year, because again she is expected to know them by heart now.

I feel like the opportunity to differentiate properly and individual needs are being lost.

I can see what you mean ReallyTired. Having too low expectations of a child can be just as bad as having too high expectations for all children. I don't really know what the best solution is, but if the child is seen as the individual he is and his targets and progress set up accordingly, then that would be ideal. That has been my experience with DS but on the other extreme of attainment range.

For example, the new curriculum expects the Year 2 children to know their times tables of x2, x5 and x10. For some children this might be too much to ask, or too soon, whereas for others it would be just right. And in some cases, you would have a child that at Year 2 already knows all the times tables up to 12. And in this case, rather than expect him to be the same as everyone else and do endless practise of only x2, x5, x10, he needs the teacher to recognise that as an individual he is ready to practise applying the knowledge of all the times tables in a different way.

I actually think the change was a good idea. Is it a lot to take on - maybe as the changes are quite sudden and a huge step up but I really think going away from chasing levels to ensuring a child has a solid understanding of the topic is good.

I see a difference in DD, especially maths. She can use her knowledge in several ways instead of moving from just grasping the basic and off to the next level without having a full understanding how to use her learning in a multitude of ways.

I also think literacy has improved, again, because they use their learning instead of just moving on.

I have friends with children in Germany, same age, apprx. same level of primary school. I can see a huge difference what they learn and I think only since the new curriculum I can say they are on the same level. We thought about moving back a year ago for family reasons and I was worried how DD would cope with her lacking basics compared to her German friends.

My friend's children do have regular test, they get reports with grades twice a year, proper grade, eq. to A-E, instead of the stuff we get where I have no idea what the teacher says. They are healthy, happy children. Yes, is there pressure and homework and learning and revising? Yes sure there is. But all of them manage hobbies and a family life.

Jackflash. Me too but I couldn't physically manage kids 24/7 at the moment.

I don't know if the curriculum really expect too much from children or not. May be it depends on individual child. For both my summer dcs they were quite behind during infant school but then slowly caught up in junior school.
I hate top, middle, bottom settings approach. Both of my dcs developed a real resentment towards maths since they were put into bottom set. Everyone and themselves included see children at bottom set as hopeless at maths. For me the real battle isn't to improve their maths but to change their attitude to the subject and their self beliefs.
Also i always feel that there isn't enough balance in subjects and activities. I wish there were more physical, creative, hands on and outdoor activities that many young children would really enjoy.
But then I believe most teachers are trying their best to do their jobs in their difficult condition.

That's very interesting "noramum". I remember it was exactly the same when I went to primary school in my country. We had regular tests throughout the year, final tests, proper grades, and if the child didn't make the minimum required grade they had to repeat the year.

From my cultural point of view and based on my personal experience, the new curriculum seems normal, and if anything, all the new tests introduced are still too few compared to what I am used to see as "normal".

It's not the nc itself, it's the silly idea that all dc are average when they aren't. It's too slow by far for the most able and too fast for the least able.

I think the solution is allowing teachers more discretion as to what/ when individuals are taught. So rather than differentiating a class topic, they are differentiating the nc for each child. Some like Dds do that now, but the problem is that ofsted don't approve, even though it's of greater benefit to the individual kids.

whirlwind it's not benefiting the most able either, it's to their detriment too. Because even more teaching time has to go towards trying to make those at the bottom end achieve impossible targets, and more class time dedicated to going over the same stuff for the just below average/ average. Plus this stupid idea of all dc working at the same level results in even more excuses as to why the most able shouldn't be offered appropriate work. It might be in the interests of the averagely bright, but it's as crap for both ends of the bell curve of ability.

Yr 2 children have to know 3x tables as well Ellle.

Lurked - yes I can see that being a problem. It's about the curriculum looking like its catering for more able children when a very bright child would still be capable of much more.

I know he's no longer Education Secretary but it's symptomatic of both his and Nicky Morgan's thinking but Michael Gove was the person who told a Select Committee that he wanted "all schools to be 'above average'"

The chair of the Select Committee made a wry comment along the lines of "Statistics was obviously not your forte"

Thanks WhirlwindHugs, so the x3 times table as well by the end of Year 2. I couldn't remember off the top of my head which ones were so I quickly googled a document with the changes in maths expectations in the new curriculum and it said x3, x4, x8 for Year 3 and only x2, x5, x10 for Year 2.

I totally agree with Lurkedforever1. We have also been lucky that at DS's school the teacher differentiates the NC according to what the child is capable of. When I look at the homework DS gets from school or his school books, sometimes it is difficult to know what the average child is actually expected to be learning at Year 2, because what he is asked to do quite often bears no relation to the new curriculum, however it suits what he knows and the progress you would expect from him.

Y2s have to.learn the 2x, 5x and 10x, and also how to count in 3s. So it might as well be the 3 times table.

For example, the new curriculum expects the Year 2 children to know their times tables of x2, x5 and x10.

So did the old curriculum, really.

I'm not sure if it's the content that's the issue. The implementation and the assessment on the other hand definitely is.

And the changing of the goal posts midway through the year.

At the school where I am a governor, we have children doing hard, harder, hardest and Hurculean topics within the class. Therefore the work is differentiated according to ability and children are challenged with Herculean once they have secure knowledge.

The less able children may be taught in a small group, either in class or with a separate teacher, with tasks set that are more appropriate for them. We too cover pre learning before a new topic is started. We have three teaching groups set by ability in years 5 and 6 for English and Maths.

I do not, on the whole, feel that children are pressurised. Most want to learn and enjoy school. The brightest children are getting a lot out of the new curriculum although I do agree the grammar is ludicrous, as is Roman Numerals. I think a few switch off and have low self-esteem because they fail to engage in some of the topics, especially the grammar! It is really sad if a 5 year old cannot enjoy school.

Around me, the independent schools are not safe havens for SEND children. Rather, they do not know what to do with them and I have seen such children taught in classes below their age. Personally, I think that leads to low self-esteem and real problems at secondary transfer.

It also seems reasonable that all children make progress. I do not see it as an obsession. The problem is that the bar for making "good" or "expected" progress is higher than before. This was always going to cause problems to children who are "below expected" progress, possibly SEND and PP children, and their schools.

I agree with the SEND comments, bojorojo. It's patchy at best.

I was talking to someone the other day whose school does what you say and moves children around to different classes. Including sending yr 6 children to reception if that lesson better suits their needs. I'm still hoping it was a joke.

I nanny in Scotland and the private prep school the kids go to has sent two kids I know about down a year. One from P1 down to nursery and the other from P3 down to P2. These are not for the odd class where they find something difficult this is a proper class move.

The children believe the P1 has been moved because he cried for his mum every day and the P3 because he's naughty. It's mad!

I'm rather relieved that the curriculum is not so dumbed down as it was and that expectations have been raised. I am still shocked at the poor level of English grammar expected. I think Gove was an idiot - loved the quote about all schools being above average - but the expectations at primary level were really too low. The curriculum still needs to do a lot more for more able kids, who suffer from chronic neglect in many schools.

able kids, who suffer from chronic neglect in many schools.

What's your evidence for this assertion?

When I read threads about what is expected from children at young ages in England it makes me glad my children are at school in Ireland.

DS is age 6 and the school is taking things at a much slower pace than in England, from what I can tell anyway.

The youngest children starting school here are about 4 and a half - with many being 5 or 5 & a few months.

In the end an Irish 18 yr old and an English 18 yr old will probably finish school at much the same level despite the slower start in Ireland.