Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Flip

1 2 3 4

Original poster

If I hear 'SATS' one more time I think i'll...............

80 replies

runningouttaideas · 09/02/2016 10:07

SCREAM!! I have 2 Dc going through them at the moment one in Y6 and the other Y2. If I see one more practice paper from years gone by or one more print out in 6 year old Dd's school bag putting pressure on to learn ASAP as if her life depends on it. If one more of my Dc come in extremely stressed because they can't get their writing perfect when their bodies can not physically do it I am going to declare a SATS strike at home!...and a strict diet of fun stuff only!

I had Ds's Y6 CT tell me how worried she is about his SATS last week, it was so hard for me to bite my tongue because I know he will do just fine (I'm 100% confident) and they have been telling me for years that he is perfectly capable, their league table will not be affected what so ever, and all her hard work WILL pay off. Its the drilling that is causing the issues....sigh....and now for a nice and some ...

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Feenie · 10/02/2016 16:33

A decent secondary school will do its own assessment in Y7 anyway - because they know the ridiculous hothousing that goes on in many primary schools around SATs, and the stupidly inflated results it gives.

KS2 SATs are externally marked. The secondary school can do all the Y7 assessment it likes - it will still be set targets based on Y6 resuluts, I'm afraid.

multivac · 10/02/2016 16:36

Yes, and a decent secondary school knows that 'Ofsted targets', and what the human beings in its care are capable of achieving, are generally two separate things.

multivac · 10/02/2016 16:39

In other words, yes, the league table score - Progress 8, specifically - will be related to SATs results. But we don't care about league table scores, do we?

Any school that decides, for example, my child is incapable of getting above a C in maths at GCSE because he didn't perform especially well in an arbitrary test at the age of 10 - and adjusts its teaching and expectations of him accordingly - is not one to which I would wish to send him.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 10/02/2016 16:50

Getting above your target grade would be looked on favourably in the league tables under progress 8.

Looking at the exemplars and assessment arrangements, I suspect that a bigger issue for secondaries is that KS2 assessment might no longer be a very good predictor of GCSE attainment. Particularly in English.

Given that neither the new KS2 assessments or the new GCSE spec seem to have been tested out in this respect secondaries might be shooting in the dark for a bit.

SurvivalGuide · 10/02/2016 17:12

DD in year 6 keeps telling me her teacher will get a bonus if she does well in her SATS. Please tell me this isn't true? However do good SATS results = good appraisal = pay rise I wonder?

mrz · 10/02/2016 17:13

They aren't Ofsted targets multi, they're targets set by the Department of Education

Feenie · 10/02/2016 17:17

Yes, and a decent secondary school knows that 'Ofsted targets', and what the human beings in its care are capable of achieving, are generally two separate things.

Yes, and they can think that till the cows come home as well! But they don't get to decide that they'd rather meet the latter rather than the former. The point was related to allegedly inflated KS2 results, remember.

ineedaholidaynow · 10/02/2016 17:32

My understanding is that teachers' pay is performance based for all years, not just Y6. So results of SATS may impact pay but no bonuses

multivac · 10/02/2016 17:38

But they don't get to decide that they'd rather meet the latter rather than the former

They do get to decide what data they use to inform the way they teach their students.

Feenie · 10/02/2016 17:40

As long as they ultimately reach the targets!

multivac · 10/02/2016 17:42

Getting above your target grade would be looked on favourably in the league tables under progress 8

True. But harder to do if you've been put in a 'set' that isn't expected to exceeed, say, a 'C' - and had it made very clear to you that this is the case from your first day in Y7. Especially if you are being taught by a teacher who thinks that 'setting' and 'differentiation' are the same thing.

I would also be annoyed at a school that placed a child of mine under pressure to over-achieve at GCSE, following inflated results at KS2.

Feenie · 10/02/2016 17:42

No.one said they were obliged to teach in any way, btw - they just have to meet the targets, whether or not they regard them as over-inflated.

Feenie · 10/02/2016 17:46

As I said before, they are externally marked. Unless there is out and out malpractice, it's a mark the child earned - and perhaps what they are capable of attaining, rather than repeating Y5/6 work and being bored to death, as most of our higher attaining returning Y7s report.

multivac · 10/02/2016 18:32

Unless there is out and out malpractice

Heaven forbid...

Feenie · 10/02/2016 19:07

No idea why you posted that. We know there are instances of malpractice, no one is trying to pretend otherwise. It isn't relevant, unless your point is that the vast majority of primary schools are cheating. In which case, there are a fair few primary school teachers just on MN who would want to have words with you.

multivac · 10/02/2016 19:23

Just reminded me, 'tis all. Cheating isn't widespread, of course. Teaching to the test; intensive cramming; excessive pressure on children to perform; extra tutoring for those that can afford it - those are all widespread. Not because teachers want it to happen. But because things have spun arse-about-face, and tests that were supposed to ensure all young people were getting the education they deserved, are being treated as drivers for pedagogical practice, mention sticks with which to beat teachers, and, most bizarrely of all, an influencer, rather than very imprecise indicator, of outcomes five, seven, or nine years down the line.

multivac · 10/02/2016 19:24

not to mention sticks.
I don't know what a 'mention stick' is...

Feenie · 10/02/2016 19:45

Me neither! There is another side to the 'over-inflation' view, that was my only point really. How easy is it to push a child through tests to attain a level they are a) not capable of in the first place and b) marked externally? Not very, as most primary teachers will tell you.

For every secondary teacher who complains about over-inflated levels, I can show you a bored pre-teen.

I took part in a secondary English project some years ago - they were amazed at the capabilities of the Y6s they observed. To my knowledge, nothing changed

We asked the local high school two years ago to show us some moderated level 6 work - what was given was pile of white compared with the quality of what some of our children could produce - I would have given it a high 3, if that. Beware of low expectations, is all I am saying. To dismiss the vast majority of KS2 marks as overinflated is a mistake.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 10/02/2016 19:46

Shhh! Don't tell the DfE about the 'mention sticks' for beating teachers. They'll make a bulk order.

Feenie · 10/02/2016 19:46

Dr...that should have read 'pile of shite', as I am sure you all guessed. My kindle is a bit of a prude.

multivac · 10/02/2016 19:56

Rafa

Original poster

runningouttaideas · 10/02/2016 19:57

Evening all!

I've just managed a quick scan through your posts, I see a lot of agreement.

I'm embarrassed to say that when DS was in Y2 I was sucked into the stresses. We went to the meetings about the SATS/tables etc etc and genuinely believed that they were on par with GCSE's. I helped watched my DS get to the point of despair over the bloody things until they were done with...and then I found out what they were . Well we won't be doing that again thats for sure.

I know my DC will do better during a test than they will ever do in a class room because it will be the ideal environment, unfortunately when they don't do well with the drill in the classroom they are drilled some more....right now I just see their motivation to learn being sucked from them.

So for those reasons I officially declare the SATS strike on!

OP posts:

multivac · 10/02/2016 19:58

Feenie
I was genuinely trying to work out what Tippex had to do with anything...

Feenie · 10/02/2016 19:59

Quiero · 10/02/2016 20:05

DS is in Year 6 and ALL his maths and English homework has been SATS practice booklets. I was asked to buy a set and have so far attended 3 meetings. The school have gone mad! They are making them sit them in the hall in exam conditions and treating them as if they are as important as A-levels.

DS's English teacher said she has children coming to her in tears weekly because they are so worried. It's just not right.

Flip

1 2 3 4

Swipe left for the next trending thread