I realise this sounds ridiculous...'register order'

[Deliaskis]

DD started reception in September. She has always been one of the quieter ones, and takes her time to dive into groups of children etc. She's actually very confident with adults, but less assertive with children. We're trying to work on this with her and help her speak up for herself etc.

This is the ridiculous bit, but I would appreciate thoughts nevertheless (even if they are that I need to get over it). At school, they seem to do a lot of things in 'register order'. They sit in register order on the carpet, they go in each morning in register order, they go to lunch and sit in register order to eat, they obviously do a lot of things in class in register order (e.g. 1-2-1 reading starts at the top and they work down). Our surname begins with 'Wy', so obviously DD is last for everything, at the back of every line, last to read, last to go in, last for lots of things.

I know there is nothing the school can do about where we fall in the alphabet, but what I have now seen happening is that DD is hanging back at other activities (e.g. at a sport she does where they take turns, at Rainbows etc.), just assuming her place in everything is last. For a girl who is not naturally self-confident and assertive, I am starting to worry a little about whether this is becoming baggage at an early age that is unnecessary. Obviously we try and tell her that register order only matters at school, but it's hard to get it through.

Am I being ridiculous? Probably. Is there anything I can do about it? Probably not. Is it worth talking to her teacher about how to help her confidence and how to explain to her that register order is actually completely unimportant and she is not destined to a life of being last at everything? This is the bit I need help with.

Prepared to be a bit ridiculed....

D

If you can have a discrete word with the teacher, you could suggest sometimes they do things in REVERSE ORDER; it would make it more interesting for all the class, not just your child.

There's a noticeable effect in local elections fwiw - when voting for 3 candidates, if people split their vote across parties it's nearly always the one or two with the earliest alphabetical name who are voted in, rather that the later-alphabet candidate.

To the point where I'm aware of at least one local candidate in my neck of the woods who runs under her maiden name (H I think) rather than her usual surname (which starts with a Z).

As a teacher I do use alphabetical order sometimes (2 assemblies out of 5) as it is expected that the chn can line up in register order during a fire drill. We have chn who have earnt privileges for good behaviour so I often let them line first. Reading is done in book band order (so the lowest ability read first/most often). And most things they just line up! Lunchline is done both forward and reversed order by my (middle of the alphabet named) dinner lady. I went from beginning to end getting married - I found both pros and cons of a early surname (1st in for good and bad things! Injections being one of them)

YANBU.

There is a lot of research showing that having a name starting later in the alphabet can have a detrimental effect on academic achievement.

Research

T surname here and joining you in the end of the alphabet ghetto (lifetime of worn out text books to prove it). Yes it's a thing but not as much of a thing as being youngest in the class with a surname at the end of the alphabet (oh hello DS...)

As mentioned I think a good teacher will mix it up sometimes and be alert to the needs of the more reticent children.

Well in my DDs school and the school I work in the register is done in age order, not alphabetical. ....

DDs class do line up in register order, but the one at the front moves to the back each day like someone suggested above.

Age order is an awful way to do it. You are the youngest in the class. You are always going to hear that bloody phrase, whispered "summer born" with the knowing nod.

In my children's school, they vary the order each term. So, alphabetical order by surname/ first name; reverse order by surname /first name. Also, they occasionally order by height (which dd hates as she is short) and by birthday. Also, sometimes by 'custom' order, which usually arises when 2 children are unable to stand next to each other in the line without chaos ensuing. And, frequently on trips: any old order.

I would think you're projecting for a 3/4year old to be hanging back because of it. Especially when she has an unassertive personality anyway - surely that's more likely the reason?

However my two 'W's have never been so regimented. They sit where they like on the carpet, eat with their friends, line up in any boy-girl-boy order. In nursery they put their names on the board to register so no order at all, and in YR register is ordered by first names. Teachers sometimes start from the bottom of the register or call them by table names. In infants they have named groups (rabbits, frogs etc) instead of set tables. Your DD's school does sound very regimented. Is it a state school or private? And can I ask how you know the details on how they line up etc, is she at the preschool there already? If your info is from her, just start by checking if they don't mix it up more than she's aware of. 4 year olds are not know for their high level broad brush view.

Thanks again for further thoughts. I had a chat with the teacher this morning (she actually asked me in about another matter relating to DD being a bit teary at the moment), and she said they do a lot in register order the first couple of terms as they drill it into them so in case of fire alarm etc. they can quickly figure out who is missing, but that it will get less now as the term moves on. They have now also put them into ability groups for different activities which obviously they can't so at the start of reception as they need to assess then first.

Cressandra it's a state primary, she's in reception (will turn 5 next week), and I know because I see them line up every morning, and she has told me she sits next to child surname 'Wo' on the carpet and on the same table as 3 x W surnames for lunch. The teacher has confirmed this this morning.

The funny thing is it really isn't regimented feeling in anything else, one of the reasons we chose it is because it does have a very family/village feel, biggest class is DD's which has 19, the others are all 15.

Anyway, I have a better understanding now of why they are doing it, and the teacher has assured me that it will become less now.

Thanks so much for thoughts people, it's been really interesting.

D

That sounds like a really useful chat Dani.

My apologies, I read "started reception in Sept" as "starts reception in Sept", totally my mistake of course.

I still don't get why 4 year olds can't sit next to their friends mind.

I've been thinking about this OP and although I posted upthread about being last and not getting a pink hat I was the "z" child, a July child so one of the youngest and,also one if the smallest until I was 13. Looking back, it never held me back. In fact I think it made me more determined to get myself ahead and in doing so I had to learn how which ultimately I don't think many of the alphas did x

I gave my daughter a name beginning with A with a surname beginning with an A as I always was at the bottom of the register and was constantly left out, forgotten or had to work by myself if pairs were chosen going down the register always at the back of the line xxx I hated school was incredibly shy and had no self esteem xxx and felt invisible xxx not a t all like this as an adult tho

I was always in the middle of the register, so never first
DC have DH surname so are at the beginning, DD1 also has an early birthday and was very tall for her age.
She still lacked confidence, found it hard to make friends, didn't speak up or answer questions for the first few years, she dreaded going first and if possible would hang back. Eventually she got used to it and by the time she took her A levels did put her hand up in class and play (music) solo in front of 100's of people. At aged 5 (and through most of primary) it was a struggle to get her on 'stage' for the class assemblies and I never thought we would get there.
What I am trying to say is sometimes it isn't where your name is in the alphabet that defines you and even if your DD was first she may still be the same. I'm impressed with your class teacher's response though.

I'm in my 50s teaching 34 years and l have never lined anyone up in alphabetical order or was lined up myself. I would hate to see same child first and same one last everytime. I vary it to give everyone a go. There is always a child who wants to be first in everything.

I agree with you. We have a end of alphabet name. My Dd's have missed out on reading with helpers and the teacher, cooking with the TA, craft activities to name a few. They always start at the top of the list and run out of time so the same children miss out time and time again. I did raise it once as one of them hadn't been heard read for 6 weeks. The teacher said they always do it like that. We don't always get school letters either as they run out before everyone has got one.

I am truly stunned at the number of teachers that must be doing this . How very odd. I've always moved the Leader to the back each day if for any reason I've lined the dc up in alphabetical order. It's just obvious that would only be fair, surely ?

The one thing in particular that struck me about the post, is that the children even had to have their lunch in register order. Surely they should be allowed to sit with their friends.

As PP said there's been research- this is a thing. Some stats to do with prime ministers and presidents and surnames being near the beginning of the alphabet too. There's an article here about it www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/3294546/Is-your-name-to-blame-for-unhappiness.html for what it's worth my maiden name began with an A and I could definitely see the advantages of being at the start of the register- as others have said beat equipment, first go etc. My married name begins with a B so haven't gone far down. My best friends maiden name began with a W and she hated it at school for the reasons others have already mentioned. We did have teachers who tried to mix it up by birthday and age and height but as my birthday is September and I was always tall I always won there too. I should be prime minister- had all the advantages but was clearly just lazy!

Dd is also in reception and surname is A and she's first in the register and was first for the school nurse, first for the height/weight check recently but her school groups children by colours ( ability groups) so it's red group to snack, green group to the toilet etc.
I don't think there's much you can do about it though I understand your frustrations.
Reception is a minefield.

To add OP, do not think it's fair that your dd has to sit with her alphabetical friends at lunch, that is strange that the school do that.
My dd is also 5 next week- lovely age

Our teacher and schools I have worked in always did A to Z then Z to A depending on the day.

I still hold much bitterness as a child because in the pre healthy food days we used to get biscuits as a snack with our meal and as someone with a K no matter which way they did the register I never got the chocolate viscount biscuits bitter

I used to be a Y. Since being married I am a B. I am the other way around - I don't like being one of the first - I liked hanging back and being at the end. I especially loved walking in late for registration as a teenager and still having a chance of being present, iyswim

I'm glad the teacher accepts your point, but you'll need to keep an eye on this in future years. I moved from the middle to the end of the alphabet and my dc have consistently mentioned that they miss out regularly when things are done alphabetically.

I think the one that annoyed me most was when some outside people came into the school to organise a Tudor day complete with clothes to dress up in. DD was really looking forward to it but commented that she hoped she wouldn't end up as the maid as that sort of thing was what usually happened as they did it alphabetically. When they turned up they duly went through the costumes by alphabet, so the As to Ds were kings and queens and lords and ladies. DD still waited hopefully only to find that by the time they got to her the costumes had run out completely. I was really unimpressed, especially as we'd had to pay towards the day.

This brought back so many memories of my maiden surname (W!!). Yes, always last in the line, handed sub standard equipment if they ran out etc.
Worse was in high school though. They decided they needed smaller classes in science and technology than the firm numbers. So the first 25 in the register got to do those lessons still together in their for. The last 4/5 in the register had to be thrown together to make up a new class for those lessons. Perfect. We were called the 'reject' class......