Forest school for some but not all.

[PurpleElla]

My daughter is in reception. It has come to light (via other parents not any communication from the school) that 10 children from across reception year have been chosen to do six weeks (one afternoon a week) of forest school. The children have been chosen apparently because the school feels these children will benefit most from these sessions. I spoke to the head about this, as I feel that a) a brilliant opportunity is being denied to 50 children from this year group and b) the school should have let all parents know this was happening and why.

Just gauging opinions really. Can the school run this for some children based on what seems like basically a fairly vague assessment of need (no SEN or pupil premium involved as far as I can tell.

I didn't mean to come across as patronising, sorry if that was the impression. However, i think that sometimes, perhaps, your aspergers may lead you to seek concrete reasons/answers where none can be forthcoming; school can't and don't have to explain their indepth reasoning around the choices of kids to you. Sometimes you have to take it that they know what they are doing- and a term is plenty to identify those who would benefit.

A chat re how the school/PTA might fundraise to support more forest school would be a good way forward.

I too am sorry that you see views from other angles as overkill.

I thought that if you trusted the teachers, you wouldn't have asked - or reacted- in the ways you did.

And that the logical consequence of no faith in the professionalism of the teachers in arranging this is that it is not the school for you.

Now, if you see that as a massive over-reaction, fair enough. But it arose from posts where you were showing considerable mistrust and antipathy.

I am sorry if it made you feel bad. But I personally think if only few children were selected for something, I normally assume there must be reason for it and accept it. Drip feeding about ASD didn't help as well, my child has ASD traits, so I understand it, because of his reaction to injustice.
Obviously, you come on MN and talk about it, it means your DCs have loving caring Mum. Some children who are invited might not? You never know. There can be loads of different reason.

Ds' primary school has been doing forest school for all children in Reception, Y1 and Y2. The children have a great time and benefit tremendously from the experience but it is quite expensive to run.
From Y3 onwards it's just for 10 children each term. My DS is one of them, he has ASD and has an EHCP. The school use the forest school sessions to work on team work and they get to talk through feelings in a relaxed way. DS gets to do the forest school all year round, I know some parents have expressed discontent that just a few of the children get to do the forest school and their children don't. I obviously not going to disclose why the school thinks my DS needs them. But for my DS the forest school is another intervention like the literacy club he does in the mornings or the speech and language therapy sessions.
I obviously know nothing about why the other children that attend the forest school are there but I guess the reasons are not dissimilar to DS'.
Maybe this is just a pilot and they'll extend it to every child in the future.
I think the fundraising idea is a very good one.

I sometimes think it's impossible not to drip feed. And I get cross that some jump on this.

In a conversation often more things come to light - it's a two way thing. You can't always give all the relevant info until you know it's relevant.

Especially when asking questions.

They did this at my DC last school -small group from both classes- thing was by the end of the year all the children had their half term - 6 weeks- of forest school.

I'd go and ask the teacher if it's just these ten or if your DC will get a turn later in the year. Then at least you'd know if it is just a matter of waiting their turn.

I've been told by my DC teachers they can't get them into support groups the school run despite the teachers thinking they would benefit because the person running the group has other children who are worse off than mine and they have prioritised them. That is very annoying but sadly understandable because resources are finite.

Clarella,

I think on the site like this, it's all up to you how to come across as a person. Yes, when I responded first time, I have made up my mind that OP was entitled, very unsympathetic person. But, it's all because I read all her post, and made judgement from it.
I personally think primary board isn't nasty. You get nasty response when your post doesn't sound nice in the first place.

When my son was in pre school (linked to the school he is at now) he did a forest school thing along with 5 or 6 others, they basis of it was actually a speech and language and communication thing for children who they had identified would benefit. The children are all in year 1 now and as far as I am aware only Ds and one other have any official 'special needs' but that is irrelevant because at that point they were in the best position to benefit from what was being offered.

Not all children will benefit from everything, not everything can realistically be offered to all children which is why schools often have to make a call on the best way to help students with what is available. Should no children benefit from something which could make a massive difference for them simply because it isn't feasible to offer it to everyone?

"Gosh Mumsnet isn't for the faint hearted is it"

Have you not been around long then OP?

This is nothing NOTHING, compared to the flamings i have had on here! But don't go! Mumsnet is very straight talking so the advice you get is generally good and its supportive, however you don't always hear what you want to hear.

I think a few things might have put PPs backs up. The comments about SEN and pupil premium made me feel a bit As a parent, you should have no idea about whether a child has SEN (unless its blatantly obvious or you know them) and even less so pupil premium.

When my DD's school took DD, i was told she was selected on the basis that she has confidence issues (she is dyslexic which causes this), i know another child that went whose parents were separating and having difficulties because of this. So not always down to SEN or pupil premium (very small % of pupil premium at DDs school). They only took four children from each year as it was a pilot, They relied on parents to help transport the kids to the forest school and my DP did do a couple of the runs. I am hoping that they are continuing with it as it was such a positive experience for my DD but it really does come down to money.

If you can get the PTA behind you to raise money for this i would imagine the school would snap your hands off (PM me if you want advice about fund-raising, i am a demon fund raiser and can give you advice on where to apply for funding if you are interested).

I think it is a bit rubbish that the whole year group don't go, but also think its nice that they do it in small groups as i think that is one of the reason's why it is so good iyswim.

Thanks everyone, sorry I didn't give you all the information in my first post. I'm wary of mentioning my ASD and hasn't really realised initially that was possibly why I reacted this way. Should I mention my ASD on every post for context?

I've been around for a while but only posted a few times, and have never got people's backs up before. I can see why you thought I was being entitled but I really was just trying to understand my reaction. I can see now that there're too many factors for me to be fully informed so I'll just have to accept that the school made a decision with all the information they have.

So my conversation with the head tomorrow will be around how we can apply for funding to be able to include more children in this opportunity. Any ideas are v.welcome - thanks theoriginalLEM.

I'm not suggesting you should mention your ASD on every post, but I do mention being a foreigner when I can't be 100% sure if I'm being rude or not(without realizing), because of my abruptness of use of English.

I think fundraising for all the children to be able to attend is a very good idea.

Do you know who is providing the forest school experience? I know charities who work with families do this totally independently of the school.
We've had children do rock climbing and forest trail mountain biking as "play therapy" session.

It happened in my daughters school and she never got to go and I don't know why, I forgot about it until I read this to be honest x

think some people are being a bit harsh,
you are quite entitled to challenge if you think its unfair

DS1 was selected to take part in a Forest School group when it first started at his school. He had recently started at the school, going into Yr 3. He was showing anger and frustration at times, both in the playground and classroom.
Obviously some pre-assessment had gone on to select him for this group, but actually by attending Forest School it was a form assessment. The staff were able to see how this small group of children were outside of a classroom and regular school environment. The children felt more comfortable talking to staff, there was little peer pressure, the team building exercises were hugely beneficial to esteem and confidence.
From this small group a decision was made to refer my son for further assessments (both in the school and from external agencies) which eventually lead to a Tourette's diagnosis and help with his anxiety.

What I'm trying to say is that this group for Forest School may be being assessed discretely. Just because you see no SEN or PP links, doesn't mean they don't need support in other ways.

OP of course you have a right to express your opinion to the school and explain how beneficial this would be for all children. However you have absolutely no right to ask why children who are not yours have been selected for this activity. I would be fuming if the needs of my child were shared with other parents. I do agree it's a shame so perhaps just express your disappointment.

My daughter was offered this because she was excessively quiet and shy when she was 8 she had been selectively mute at the age of 5. I was asked for approval which I readily gave.

She is 14 now and has blossomed socially, but she really did need some help at that age.

A new tricky thing with Mumsnet, people who read the first post and comment without reading the thread and realising you've already been convinced! Ok, ok, I get it. Thank you.

Oh OP, I think a lot of people (not necessarily on this thread) don't read the full thread (hence the acronym)!

Anyway, I feel for you, there was a thread on here a while ago about boys only being offered a club involving model building and bike repairing because the boys in the class weren't bonding properly, and having a dd who would love doing that I was .

The thing is, forest school sounds fun and surely all the kids would benefit from it so I think the idea of finding a way for all the kids to experience it (even if not all at once) is a good one.

Two terms is more than enough time to assess the needs of children for an experienced teacher. Sessions like these are often used just in the same way as additional sessions for maths etc, and used for a variety of reasons. They cannot be compared in any way whatsoever with school trips, so your example about taking half a year group on a trip and not the other is totally irrelevant. As for letting all parents know about it, no they don't have to, it's nobody else's business!

OP. sadly mumsnet is full of paper tigers. lots of genuine ppl too though as you have seen on this thread. don't let it get to you

I thibnk you are either on board with the idea that schools can offer additional support/activities to children based on need, or you are not. It can be tough when your child is not selected for something you think they need or would enjoy (or never selected for anything at all) but if you support the principle then I think you have to suck it up. I was pleased that ds1 goes to an extention group for maths, so can't complain he wasn't selected for robot club (which he would adore).

Thanks thecat, I will get used to Mumsnet, and lots of people have been really helpful So an update...

I spoke to the head about how we can include more children, she said the logistics of getting all the children out for forest school made it impossible to do for all. However when I suggested perhaps the school could bring elements of forest school into the school playground she was happy to discuss. We left it that I will be asking my friend who is a forest school teacher to consult with the school about what might be possible within the school.

I think this is a positive result and I'm glad I came here to gather opinions before our meeting.

Thanks everyone. I also want to add thanks for being understanding, it's hard for me to do social communication and I'm so happy I'm learning to be honest about my difficulties and getting understanding.