New SATs test on times tables

[BatmanLovesBaubles]

TES link

First three paragraphs:

All children will be tested on their times tables as part of their KS2 Sats, under new plans unveiled by education secretary Nicky Morgan this morning.

The tests will examine multiplication skills in every 11-year-old as part of ministers' "war on innumeracy and illiteracy", the Department for Education said.

Pupils will expected to know all tables up to 12x12, with the skill measured using an "on-screen check" examination to be piloted by 3,000 students in 80 schools this summer before being rolled out across English primaries in 2017.

I am so cross about this.

1. Why remove the Mental Maths test (which did test times tables)
2. More timed tests are NOT what we should be doing at primary where many children already feel under pressure
3. Maths is an area where children often panic and their minds become blank - this is really not going to help
4. What happened to Nicky Morgan's promise that nothing new would be introduced?

I am so, so angry right now

mrz please can you give some idea what percentage of pupils do not know their tables by the end of year 6
is it 5%, 25%, 33%?
does anybody know?

I don't know of any national data but schools can analyse their results to see which areas children lost marks.
I assume the idea if the test is to make it easier to calculate national figures.

it seems there must be a significant percentage otherwise why raise it is an issue?
perhaps secondary school maths teachers have a view?

If schools already teach children times tables in Y4 and they have 2 more years to consolidate before they are tested + teachers admit it wont impact their workload + everyone agrees its good for children to know their tables. Then why are teachers on here and the Unions against it? That's what I cant get my head around. It just stinks of an excuse to strike.

Given "20% of the kids coming out of primary school this year will be by normal modern standards illiterate and innumerate" you can assume at least 1 in 5 dont know their times tables.

surely that is a scandal that we shouldn't accept
our system is clearly not working for those who need it most

It just stinks of an excuse to strike.

Only one poster with an obsession re striking afaics.

Mrz, you said you taught your YR2 children times tables up to 12.
Your children are lucky ones.
My ds's school only had one times table homework in yr2. I doubt that most children learned it.
I asked him today if they did it in YR3 yet, he said they haven't. I'm not worried about him, but I worry about other children who doesn't get any support at home.
Are they going to be able to learn it by end of YR6 at this rate?

Bolognese seems to be the only one mentioning strikes and I don't think he/she is a teacher!

Exactly

Yes I am very pi**ed off at school strikes. I ended up having to quit my last job during the last teachers strike because I couldn't get a childminder and my boss wouldn't give me the time off. So I am very sensitive about well paid teachers with long holidays and endless sick leave, complaining about having to do their jobs. I wish I was a teacher, but as a single parent I cant afford to go to university.

And while I am on the subject it also pi**es me off that I have to teach my child a heck of a lot every night because state schools are so invested in the bottom end and their is very little attention paid to families who want a much higher standard of education. The nonsense that my DC had to waste his time on at primary school was atrocious.

And when a government tries to improve standards teachers just seem to fight it every step of the way. I am very mad at a lot of things holding children back, its glass ceilings every floor right up to the top.

As a single parent, I went to university and trained to be a teacher so please don't use that as an excuse!

So I am very sensitive about well paid teachers with long holidays and endless sick leave

Yep, axes galore to grind - thought so.

Bolognese: I agree with you totally

About times tables, or the excuse to teacher bash in general?

About the below:

And while I am on the subject it also pi**es me off that I have to teach my child a heck of a lot every night because state schools are so invested in the bottom end and their is very little attention paid to families who want a much higher standard of education. The nonsense that my DC had to waste his time on at primary school was atrocious.

And when a government tries to improve standards teachers just seem to fight it every step of the way. I am very mad at a lot of things holding children back, its glass ceilings every floor right up to the top.

This isn't a thread about striking.

Or complaining about schools/teachers in general.

Perhaps you two might like to take your axes onto another thread, or pm each other maybe?

Yes, as I usually experience, instead of an intelligent response I get people like Hmph5 and spanieleyes belittling the plight of working class parents who want better for their children.

This is a thread about times tables. Which it seems parents want and teachers oppose. Why dont the teachers take their moans about doing their job to another thread so we can talk about the real issues.

Are you a teacher Hmph5, anything you dont agree about the above statement and why? (I think you are as you are telling people like the way primary teacher telling their pupils in class? You didnt opened the thread, it was an open discussion, you cant tell people not telling the truth or not saying what they think.

"es I am very pi**ed off at school strikes. I ended up having to quit my last job during the last teachers strike because I couldn't get a childminder and my boss wouldn't give me the time off. So I am very sensitive about well paid teachers with long holidays and endless sick leave, complaining about having to do their jobs. I wish I was a teacher, but as a single parent I cant afford to go to university. "

You could take out a loan and do an OU course. Or you could get a support role in a school.

You have the right to emergency parental leave under european union rules. Believe it or not many teachers have exactly the same problem. In fact very few teachers take endless sick leave. Many teachers that I know turn up to work when they are incredibly sick. Many heads almost expect a death certificate if a member of staff is off sick. I used to do IT support in a school but I found the lack of flexiblity was really hard. I could not take time off for sick days and it was very frowned on me taking time off to look after a poorly child.

"And when a government tries to improve standards teachers just seem to fight it every step of the way. I am very mad at a lot of things holding children back, its glass ceilings every floor right up to the top."

Going to school does not make someone an expert in education. Politicans meddling does little to raise standards. If the government was serious they would have more funding for educational research and encourage teachers to put forward ideas and support the teachers in researching their ideas. Educational policy would be based on what is shown to work rather than politican's latest whim.

Seriously, if you can't post without throwing your irrelevant bitterness into what was a reasonable debate about a times tables test, then don't post.

You just make yourself look ridiculous blurting stuff out and emphasising the huge chip on your shoulder.. No one was talking about striking, working class parents, single mothers, etc, apart from you and It was a Maths teaching debate, fgs.

The debate is whether teaching tables by rote and having a test works. I would be happier if there was a pilot to see whether children who do a tables test do better in SATs overall. Sometimes education research throws up totally unexpected results.

I see that learning tables is part of primary school maths. We must of forget all the other important stuff. Its a matter of balance.

bolognese single parents can go to university, so if teachers have it that easy there is no excuse not to join them.

I do have (lots) of sympathy for your thoughts on the glass ceiling for able children. But to be blunt, if they're able enough to be hitting the ceiling, introducing a times tables test will not help them. Firstly cos the most able aren't the ones who have any problems with them, so no raising standards for them. And secondly if your children are at a school that fails them because of the focus on low achievers, introducing yet another area the lower achievers need a lot of help will only make that worse.

Anyway, enough derailing of thread.

Now I agree with your last post too Reallytired. Although we might have to quantify what are the important stuffs? (What exactly do you mean that might be more important but is being neglected too?)

I could only say from a parent's perspective, I think school should do more to more able children? Having a specific target is at least some sign for patents to know whats and when a bare minimum is supposed to be achieved