Page 2 | I am preparing my DS for 7+. Can I ask his classroom teacher to tutor him him after school?

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MidniteScribbler · 20/12/2015 05:15

The argument is presumably that, if you are directly being financially recompensed to improve the performance of Freddie, there is an incentive to give Freddie just that bit more attention in class too. Thus a conflict, or appearance of conflict.

And then if little Freddie doesn't pass the test, the teacher is naturally the one to blame.

cariadlet · 20/12/2015 07:14

I live and teach outside London so don't know much about the 7+ - I hadn't even heard of it before joining Mumsnet.

A couple of the teachers at my school tutor. But it tends to be for children who are struggling at school, are given as much extra support as possible during class, but would benefit from some 1-to-1 teaching.

I can't imagine a head of a state school being happy for teachers to tutor a child for an exam which could lead to them leaving that school in order to go private.

ravenAK · 20/12/2015 07:25

It's usually banned - otherwise you get parents who (rightly or wrongly) think Mr Smith is a crap teacher, so they bung Ms Jones to tutor their child instead, as the next best thing to Freddie being in Ms Jones's class in the first place...

Causes angst in the staffroom .

Plus, theoretically, a teacher who offered tutoring could generate a culture where parents/students were made to feel they HAD to pay for the 'extra'.

I've taught in both state & private. Banned in both.

tethersend · 22/12/2015 19:28

I work with children in care- pupil premium is quite often used for extra tuition in maths etc., and it is usually better for this to happen with a trusted adult with whom the child has an established relationship.

For this reason, some teachers do tutor in the evenings, although I have no idea how they find the time. There are many schools who recognise the value of this and don't stop their staff from doing so.

"Ask, but expect to be told no" is good advice from a pp.

Dorkius · 22/12/2015 20:29

An established pre-prep in Sloane Square allows its teachers to tutor students in their class before and after school and in the holidays for £60/hour. The parents, presumably of the students who were not being tutored by their class teacher, complained to the headmistress about the conflict of interest but she openly accepts this private arrangement. I thought it odd given these parents were already paying over £5k/term for said teacher

ChinaSorrows · 22/12/2015 20:38

I think that you will be very unlikely to find a teacher with a spare hour or so for your DS after school. Teachers are insanely overworked and under appreciated as it is.

However.

There are a number of excellent tutors, tutoring groups etc and if you're going for the 7+ then there are most likely these in your area.
Ask around.

MidniteScribbler · 23/12/2015 00:34

I work with children in care- pupil premium is quite often used for extra tuition in maths etc., and it is usually better for this to happen with a trusted adult with whom the child has an established relationship.

It's a very different situation. I would see this as extra support for a child and part of the teaching job. I run a homework club for my class once a week and many who have difficult home lives come along. I give up my lunchbreak to do so as part of my job is to support the students to achieve the curriculum.

The OP wants her child's teacher to give up her free time (no mention of offering to pay either!) for some exam which is far from mandatory. It's got nothing to do with the school, so she should find a tutor outside of school.

louisejxxx · 23/12/2015 07:27

"Please can you tutor my child out of hours on top of your ludicrous schedule so that my child can pass the 7+ and go to a better school rather than boosting your own figures?"

I think your request is lacking a unique selling point OP.

tethersend · 23/12/2015 08:02

"It's a very different situation. I would see this as extra support for a child and part of the teaching job. I run a homework club for my class once a week and many who have difficult home lives come along. I give up my lunchbreak to do so as part of my job is to support the students to achieve the curriculum."

You're right, it is a very different situation- I use it to illustrate the fact that many schools allow their staff to tutor.

It is different to a homework club in that it is targeted (paid) 1:1 tuition. It is over and above the universal offer to all students. The idea of the LAC pupil premium is to enhance what is already in place and accelerate progress, making tuition one very good use of the money.

spanieleyes · 23/12/2015 08:44

If extra tuition is supported by pupil premium we wouldn't be paid extra for it though and it wouldn't be tutoring, it would just be part of our normal teaching expectation-even if outside usual school hours.

tethersend · 23/12/2015 09:22

No, LAC pupil premium is different to the Ever6 pupil premium- it is paid to schools by the Virtual head who needs to evidence how it will be used to improve the educational outcomes of that particular child. The money is often used by the school to pay for private tuition, either from a tutor or, preferably, from a qualified member of staff who already has a relationship with that child.

spanieleyes · 23/12/2015 09:31

Apologies, we only have one LAC and use his funding for extra curricula activities rather than additional academic tuition.

tethersend · 23/12/2015 09:55

No need to apologise, spaniel- sorry if I sounded sharp

spanieleyes · 23/12/2015 10:27

Not at all!

mrz · 23/12/2015 12:01

We work in the same way as spanieleyes regarding pupil premium support. We don't employ tutors for any group of children

tethersend · 23/12/2015 14:20

LAC pupil premium spend should be agreed with the virtual head of the authority which looks after the child. For some children, tuition is the best use of the money; for others, extra curricular activities, laptops, staff training etc.

So whilst schools may have a policy on how LAC PP is spent, this should be flexible enough to accommodate the different needs/abilities of individual children, and expect it to be challenged if tuition is ruled out.

Different virtual heads pay the PP to schools in different ways- some retain some of the money and commission tuition themselves; others pay the money directly to schools and expect them to commission it. If you have LAC from different authorities within your school, you will have a different procedure for claiming the PP for each of them, and different systems for checking its use.

The one hard and fast rule is that schools need to evidence how the money has improved the educational attainment of the particular child who attracts it. It is different from the Ever6 PP in that it should not be absorbed into the general school budget.

It can, in some circumstances, be pooled to benefit groups of children with the same needs- but most virtual heads will not authorise this being interpreted as putting on intervention classes which would be running whether or not the child attended.

mrz · 23/12/2015 16:09

What if the LAC children don't have academic needs?

tethersend · 23/12/2015 16:18

They don't need to be behind- it's more about them fulfilling their potential than meeting expected levels for their age group. I have seen tuition used to raise a student from a B to an A*, even though they were meeting their expected targets.

LAC PP can also be used for musical instrument lessons, aspiration-raising trips with foster carers, specialist equipment (such as art or sports equipment), or training for staff on any emotional issues the child may face. There are many other uses. Tuition is not the only effective use of the money, but nor should it be ruled out, as it is proven to have a significant impact.

mrz · 23/12/2015 17:45

Sorry but I said "no academic needs" not anything about being "behind" ...
If their needs are being met in "normal" quality classroom provision.

tethersend · 23/12/2015 23:00

If you feel that none of my examples above would raise the long-term attainment of a child with no academic needs, I suggest that you consult with the virtual head of the authority the child is in care to, or return the money to the virtual head who may be better placed to spend it. They will know the child best, and may suggest targeted support or staff training tailored to the child.

It should not be used to fund booster classes which would run regardless of whether the child is present or be absorbed in to the generic PP pot, and there should not be a blanket ban on commissioning private tuition, whether through an agency or using teaching staff.

tethersend · 23/12/2015 23:03

Bit of text missing-

*They will know the child, although the school will know them best, and...

mrz · 24/12/2015 04:36

It's my big issue with PP the blanket assumption that children will automatically need more to reach their potential ... Some will some won't and the funding should be based on need not some arbitrary group.

tethersend · 24/12/2015 08:47

I wouldn't call children in care an 'arbitrary group', but I agree that the reasons for their statistically poor educational outcomes are far more complex than the government recognises, and the LAC PP is a blunt instrument with which to tackle them.

Having said that, recognising the needs of children in care (and former LAC) as a separate and distinct group is a step in the right direction.

But that's probably another thread.

Apologies for the derail, OP.

tethersend · 24/12/2015 08:50

FWIW, many virtual heads base PP payments on need; there will be some children who get none, and some who get more than their allocated £1,900.

Others allocate the full amount to each child regardless.

mrz · 24/12/2015 09:12

So you think every LAC child is the same? And are LAC for the same reason?