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Does this worry you?

97 replies

jellyfrizz · 15/11/2015 10:50

I'm so worried about my children going through the education system at the moment. I can't afford to send them to an independent school.

www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/2015/nov/14/secret-teacher-cant-bear-ofsted-going-teach-australia

As a primary teacher myself I can confirm that this is not just one teacher feeling like this, in fact i can't think of a single teacher who doesn't feel like this. It makes me so sad.

What can we do to stop it?

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jellyfrizz · 16/11/2015 17:29

Perhaps Ofsted need to start marking down schools that implement stupid policies that have no impact on student learning and just waste teacher time and enthusiasm?

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mrz · 16/11/2015 17:37

No jelly frizz they are imposing silly ideas and blaming Ofsted even though Ofsted have said they aren't required

jellyfrizz · 16/11/2015 19:40

So what can be done mrsz? Other than passing the blame?

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jellyfrizz · 17/11/2015 11:46

Like MrsK said, there are some places that treat teachers properly. I just wish more schools would. It's not all raindrop on roses out there - which is what I am worried about. I don't want my children taught by exhausted and demoralised teachers.

You are obviously one of the lucky ones, I'm so happy that there are still schools where teachers feel valued and able to do there jobs properly.

I worked overseas for most of my career and rarely saw a colleague cry and when I did it would be tears of emotion when leaving or when a child said something beautiful.

Here, I regularly see my colleagues cry, out of frustration and sheer exhaustion. And although they are fabulous teachers and are doing everything they can to put a brave face on, that really cannot be good for the children they are teaching.

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mrz · 17/11/2015 12:39

No one suggested it's raindrops on roses but neither is it doom and gloom. Secret teacher may find the grass isn't greener in Oz 40% leaving within the first year doesn't paint a good picture of teaching down under.

rollonthesummer · 17/11/2015 12:44

I agree that SLT often cause distress by second guessing what OFSTED want. They shouldn't have to guess though, OFSTED should have consistent criteria and inspectors so that school management can confidently ask from teachers what is needed, getting rid of the reams of other nonsense that takes teacher's time, energy, and enthusiasm away from the actual planning and teaching parts.

I completely agree with this. Ofsted and threat of special measures sends SMT into a frenzy. It's all very well saying SMT shouldn't do this, but a great very many of them do!

jellyfrizz · 17/11/2015 13:01

No one should be made to cry in their job mrsz.

The parents at our school would not guess. We all put on the jokes and happy faces during the day.

And Oz was one of the countries I taught in (I was a trailing spouse), I can confirm that it is so much better there, I taught full time and still had time for my own children. Here, despite only working part time, I struggle to spend time with my own children because of the insane workload. This was 2 years ago so unless things have changed hugely in that time Secret Teacher will be much better off.

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mrz · 17/11/2015 13:20

I agree no one should be unhappy in their place of work. My problem is with the Secret Teacher article.
The comment on the job advert was "typical primary" ... I'm not sure I agree with that either but let's get real there are some schools led by bullying SLT who use the excuse of Ofsted to force through stupid policies ... but there are also schools like the one in the advert where SLT have common sense.

mrz · 17/11/2015 13:45

Close to 50% of Australians who graduate as teachers leave the profession within the first five years, many citing overwhelming workloads and unsupportive staffrooms as their main reason for leaving the job, according to new research.

The apparent exodus of early career teachers is a significant drain on resources, says Dr Philip Riley, of Monash University’s faculty of education, who is leading Monash’s research into the reasons that lead to young educators resigning at an alarming rate.

Yes I agree that I'm lucky and the staff who work in the advertised school are lucky but the research suggests you were lucky in your Australian experience.

jellyfrizz · 17/11/2015 13:56

But many of those who graduate as teachers never actually work as teachers in the first place; there are far more teachers than jobs in Australia because experienced teachers tend not to leave - unlike here.

*“Lots of families think that studying a bachelor of education is a great idea because there's always a teacher shortage,” says Julie Brown, vice-president of the Queensland Teachers Union.

The Australian newspaper busted this myth in March, reporting that up to 90% of graduates in the biggest states fail to find permanent jobs.*

www.theguardian.com/education/2013/aug/06/teachers-leave-profession-early

Anyway it's not a contest about which is a worse place to work. I'd like to know how we can make it better, for teachers, and children.

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mrz · 17/11/2015 15:12

The research isn't graduates who ave never taught but those leaving the profession within the first few years and as such closely mirrors the UK situation.
I do think many graduates get to the end of their degree and have to think of employment and fall into teaching. I would imagine it true for many countries there are people who train when their heart isn't in it.

The solution? The Australian report says "It wouldn’t appear that there is a solution coming soon. Rhetorical discussion aside, our curriculum continues to change, and with our federal government wholly focused on university fee deregulation the states are left “holding the bag”. " I would say that's true if the UK too.

jellyfrizz · 17/11/2015 16:06

Nope, it says Australians who graduate as teachers and that the research looks at early career teachers defined as recent graduates with less than five years of practical experience. Zero is less than 5.

If up to 90% of teaching graduates fail to find teaching jobs then of course they are going to quit teaching. There are more teachers than jobs because experienced teachers are not leaving and so the situation is nothing like here where experienced teachers AND new recruits are leaving and schools are having to go on recruitment drives overseas.

Yes, I have heard it is pretty shit in the US too. I wouldn't want to teach there. I would however teach in Australia again tomorrow.

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mrz · 17/11/2015 16:09

Again a similar picture can be seen in the UK where some graduates can find jobs. I'm merely trying to point out that the problem isn't confined to England.

jellyfrizz · 17/11/2015 16:12

90% mrsz, not some.

Accepting your point that it's shit elsewhere too that doesn't make me less worried for my children going through education in this country now.

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mrz · 17/11/2015 16:15

If they are citing workload and staff room bullies as reasons for leaving it suggests they've actually done the job?

mrz · 17/11/2015 16:28

Really not sure where you're getting the 90% figure my googling is coming up with around 50% slightly higher than UK.

Keeptrudging · 17/11/2015 16:30

Agree with PPs saying that SLT are responsible for a lot of the extra workload. Had to endure years of being told we had to do additional, nonsensical things because we were 'due an inspection'. Most was extra paperwork, not about improving teaching.

When the inspectors finally arrived, they didn't look at my exhaustive plans, learning intentions, evidence folders etc. What they looked at was the quality of teaching, how much my pupils enjoyed their learning, how I personally measured progress.

I did have the last laugh as the inspectors loved what I was doing, whereas other areas of the school (who toed the SLT line) fared less well. I found it a very positive experience, I had a more honest/high quality discussion about teaching with the inspectors than I'd ever had with SLT.

Millymollymama · 17/11/2015 16:33

In your original post you assumed that private schools had better teacher morale - why? In my DDs independent school lots of the teachers were totally pi__ed off with the new Head and left pretty quickly. They are taking money from parents and they have to perform!! To a high standard in many cases. Just because a school may have smaller classes, do not assume teachers are happier!

I think some teachers do not find it easy to manage their time. I would also be unhappy if the demands of SLT were over-bearing and counter-productive. As a Governor and we always consider the work/life balance of our teachers. However, if a teacher is disorganised and does not get round to marking in a timely and effective manner, in accordance with our policy, and everyone else does, then this is something the Head will rightly discuss at their pay review. The Head will, however, look at why there might be a problem and how it can be resoloved. We want the best for the children and we also want the staff to enjoy working at the school. We have senior staff on job share contracts. The SLT and Governors rigourously look at the quality of teaching and progress of the children but why should the children be short-changed in their education by ineffective staff? We lose very few teachers. We do not have a problem recruiting teachers.

As in all walks of life, some SLTs are better at managing staff than others. However, most schools internally discuss and formulate marking policies, behaviour policies, etc. They are not just imposed from above, and in our school the staff have ownership of the policies. This is driven by all of us wanting our children to do well and make very good progress, not just Ofsted.

The new Ofsted framework is very clear about what they want. I suggest teachers take some time to read it and maybe have some training on the framework. Then it will not be possible for schools to blame Ofsted for the culture in school - because the teachers will know better.

rollonthesummer · 17/11/2015 16:40

I suggest teachers take some time to read it and maybe have some training on the framework. Then it will not be possible for schools to blame Ofsted for the culture in school - because the teachers will know better.

I know a teacher at my last school who tried to do this. The head suddenly found 'serious issues' in his teaching which resulted in a 'support plan' and then a very swift exit for the teacher concerned. He had up until that minute, always been graded as an Outstanding teacher. Amazing that.

mrz · 17/11/2015 16:56

Since Ofsted guidance says teachers shouldn't be graded it makes a mockery for schools to do it.

jellyfrizz · 17/11/2015 17:21

mrsz, the 90% is from the Guardian article you quoted.

Millymollymama, why should teachers have to fight it? Can't Ofsted mark down schools with time consuming policies that have no positive bearing on pupil progress? The types of SLT that think up these policies are more likely to listen to Ofsted than teachers.

Having to write VF and what I've said to a child (who can't read) to help them - that kind of policy.

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jellyfrizz · 17/11/2015 17:30

Millymollymama, just interested, how, as a governor, do you take teacher workload into account?

For example take a marking policy, how would you work it out?

Do you say, ok it takes 1 minute in each book so a class of 30 takes 30 mins, adding an even better if etc might take 2 mins so that would take 1 hour.

Do you then add all the other subjects the teacher teaches in the day and multiply that up to see how long it will take?

And take into account the staff meetings and extracurricular clubs staff have to attend?

Very impressed if so!

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mrz · 17/11/2015 17:47

Actually it says reporting that up to 90% of graduates in the biggest states fail to find permanent jobs. not quite what you said