Fuming - friend lying where she lives to keep DC at local school

[ukgirlatheart]

One of the mums has moved out of the area with her boyfriend, they have bought a house together but atm has kept hers to rent out once she has secured her 2 x DC's school places at local school (she has used address).

Im annoyed as she was telling me laughing at it, it isn't right at all in my opinion, when I suggested this she said well tough my kids are getting these places

I can't stand any kind of lying or cheating or bending of the truth. Just can't stand it at all.

It's not me who think it's ok.

It is not ok, it's unethical and woukd annoy me.

BUT

... I would not dob in a friend (Op says she's a friend!).

It's not terribly clear to me whether the kids have already got a school place (and if so, this may be legitimate depending on when they moved), or whether the school application is to be made for the Sep 2016 entry or later.

I'd report it to the council. If she's obtaining a school place fraudulently by using her old address, then she's stealing a place from another child who is legitimately more entitled to it.

DS1 didn't get a place in our local village school because it was oversubscribed and we live just a bit too far away. It was really upsetting for us. Almost all the other children in the village, all but one of the children he's been to nursery with, and all of his friends, are going to go to the village school. But not DS1. He has to start in a new school miles away where he knows no-one, and where he's the only kid in Reception who hasn't been to the school's nursery.

DH reckons the school DS1's going to is better than the village school, and hopefully he'll settle in well, but still, I'd be furious if I found out that someone else lying about their address had cost DS1 a place, and would have no hesitation in reporting them to the council.

If your friend committed a murder would you dob them in? That the person is a friend should be irrelevant. One rule for friends and one for strangers is poor in my view. that you wouldn't dob someone in for this is your choice. Everyone sets their moral code at a certain place. But I think it is a bit rich to judge someone else because they would consider it.

It's funny this should come up on a thread. My DD just left primary. At the leavers' service, there were a few kids I hardly knew- after 7 years in a year group of 43! I reflected that these were the kids whose parents had fibbed about where they lived. It's a sought after school.

I don't think anyone had purposely shunned them. They were invited to birthday parties and the like. But it's a small neighbourhood and somehow all the other kids and parents walking to school together and chatting, while they were dropped off in a car everyday had added up. All the random meetings at the park, etc. had added up over the years. Now most of the DC were going to the local comp, while these DC were going to comps just a little further out with no one moving up with them. Somehow they were always on the edge of things, never properly in the centre.

I am not saying it has to be that way. I think if a family has lived in the neighbourhood and been at the school a long time and established lots of relationships already, it works out fine. But it is a little awkward if you are starting fresh in Reception never having lived in the community that everyone else centres around.

These parents were willing to commit fraud to secure their children a place. And their children did get places, at the expense of other local children who ended up having to drive to further schools. And what for? The other schools weren't really all that different. After all, the curriculum is national. They could have been walking to their local schools, making ties in their community and heading onto school with their cohort of friends. But instead, their parents put them in an awkward position.

In the end, I think it is self defeating. Over-reach usually is.

Lovely post HeighHogh.

I think most people really overestimate the effect of a school, by attributing good SAT results to good teaching. Whereas in reality almost all schools have good teachers and bad teachers. Good and bad everything really. Ofsted judgements are very random and change every time they visit.

Most schools when adjusted for their cohort do really very similar.

And you're right. It's normally not worth going to an out of catchment school. I've had to do this. And although the school was right at the time, we (neither me nor my DS) never made as close as friends as we did when we were able to go to our closest school.

I am very clear on this topic. It's cheating. It's robbing local DC of places. They chose to move. Our school is one where people do this. People rent them move to cheaper areas etc. I would report. I agree with comments above. I know parents who I used to really like but I struggle with now because they have moved close to school, got place, them moved miles away, to cheaper area. Sibling places secured. I can't get past what they have done. Loads of parents have been talking about it and feel the same. It's wrong. They openly tell everyone it was our school or private ...

Definitely report it. If they have done nothing wrong then all is well. Having missed out on a place for my Dd because of fraud I know how heartbreaking it can be.

It's fraud. Definitely report.

I lived in an area where Christian children got priority over others when applying for the best school in the area. Just because something is within the rules does not mean it is fair.
Do you know why your friend did not buy a house within catchment of her preferred school? If it were because she could not afford it, then you are reporting her for the sake of a child whose parents can afford to live in the area.

Surely it's only fraud if she does it for the 2016 school year and has already moved? If her kids are to start in a few weeks and they haven't yet moved (and addresses were old house when application went it) surely not fraud?

Saw this piece this morning and thought of this thread!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34014556

I doubt most councils go to such trouble.

I just read that article myself, heigh.

I agree I'm not sure most schools would be able to afford an admissions officer who could be out on the road chasing fraudulent applicants.

But I was encouraged to read that one faith school is thinking of scrapping the faith criteria to discourage "pew jumpers" from gaining a place over local children and never setting foot in the church again.

Good to see that more and more schools are taking this fraud seriously.

There's an astonishing number of people who seem to think it's ok because they "just want the best for our children".

its interesting because my son goes to an out of catchment school we applied and used our normal address he got in fine i wouldn't have been too bothered if he had gone to the catchment school because children make friends easily at this age

I think it all depends where you live chicken. It seems to be a problem in urban areas.

The catchments of some secondary schools in London are as little as 700m chickenpox. The sibling priority has a lot to do with that!

I know that Hackney does a similar thing, HeighHogh, except it's the teachers that go and visit the pupils during the Summer holidays before they start reception, presumably in part to check that the children really do live where they're claimed to live (in addition to other reasons, obviously).

Our oversubscribed school went from in-catchment as first priority (after fostered children of course) to siblings as first priority. It's made things even worse.

It's rife near us. Everyone that is reported may put one other person off doing it. There is distinct pee jumping for one school as well - it's farcical. However where popular schools are massively oversubscribed it happens - we get 3-5 applicants per place at all our local schools

There's an astonishing number of people who seem to think it's ok because they "just want the best for our children".

Mintyy, totally agree. That sentence always comes with an unspoken 'even if it involves screwing over other children'.

To clear a few things, I said a "Mum at school" not a friend.
Also they moved 2 months ago to the other side of the city, BF sold his house the Mum kept hers and they bought a house together.

The Mums house is empty and after acceptence she is then goign to rent it out

Is it possible they didn't secure a place at a closer school?
What year are they in?
My opinion is that lying to secure a place is always wrong.
If parents were forced to use their local school, things would even out. Especially educationally. Socially is a different matter.

not ok. make sure you get your facts straight before you do anything though.

we're not in catchment for any local school. i have friends who can see their local school from their house and still don't get in. is a nightmare, so i can see why people do this, but it's not right, it's selfish and makes it worse for everyone else.

So, the DC in question will start their first year of school in September 2016? Is that right?

Because if they start reception this September, it doesn't sound like they'll have done anything against the rules if they only moved 2 months ago.

I would like to point out that when the local school is oversubscribed, then it won't be possible for all parents to use their local school, unless LEAs start forcing the schools to have reception classes of over 30 or forcing schools to build extra classrooms and hire more teachers. We weren't able to use our local school for DS1 because the school would have breached infant class size legislation if they'd accepted all the local children.