Do bright children do better with an able cohort?

[rebus1]

Bit of an academic question really as I'm not really in a position to change anything for a year or so.

DS very bright and is just finishing year 2. According to the school's data the %s of level 3s very low- works out at 2 or 3 per class.

Should I be concerned - does this mean that the expectation for the Y3 classes as a whole next year will be quite low? I realise he will get appropriately differentiated work but I'm concerned he will spend lots of time listening to whole class input that he knows already.

Would he learn more in a school with a higher achieving cohort? I'm thinking faster pace, less need for constant revisiting etc.

Or am I just over worrying- he's only 7 and I can do stuff at home with him.

rabbit I'm talking about disadvantaging as in regards to mrsz' quote about ability setting. Which yes I think does apply at primary school level too. I'm not talking about separate schools and lessons age 5. But as lessons become increasingly academic focussed from yr 1 upwards I do believe in some academic setting, however fluidly it's organised whether that's a 'tables' type organisation for different subjects, or the child/ children being taught for that subject with academic peers from the class above, or depending on the topic some actual differentiation. Whichever way or combination of ways works practically for that class/ teacher/ child. However good at their job a teacher is you can't teach a massive range of ability the same thing at the same time, without either going too fast for the majority, or too slow for the able

Similar experience to wonkylegs here - dn's 'Outstanding' school really doesn't like any child to stand out from their nice bright-but-normal cohort, whereas ds's school differentiates and groups kids in all sorts of ways for different activities - including across all 3 classes of each year group and up and down a year, both for high achievers who need extra challenge, and those who need extra support - and mixing up personalities on mixed-ability tables. I'm amazed the teachers keep track of it all, tbh.

It's certainly stopped ds claiming he didn't learn anything at school as he did for a while at the start of Y1 - now he and a couple friends compete and compare their writing and maths challenges, and other friends are for playtime and other work time.

I remember being very similar and competing with two kids to write the most interesting story and pass times table tests - couldn't care less what the rest of the class were doing!

mrsz I take any gifted and talented stuff with a bucket pinch of salt. There's way too much discrepancy in what counts as gifted

I agree that G&T label is meaningless but we can assume they don't meaning struggling pupils

The quotes are referring to primary education there is some evidence that setting in secondary gas benefits

tbh, I think you lot would need to go into each others' classrooms to understand exactly what the other one means - I don't fully understand how you are organising and teaching your classes from your descriptions!

I think this totally depends on the child in question. A friend who was at one of the top academic schools and is hugely bright would only send their children to a non-selective after their experience.

Why do guided reading?

Guided reading is very important for children, they learn a lot from listening to how other children interpret text. IF you do A levels or a degree in English you continue to drill into text as a group ( a form of guided reading)

Guided reading is not just your ability to read a word its about comprehension, there is lots that can be gained from exploring stories as a group. ( isn't that why we still read to children? My husband reads a story very differently to me, it's interesting to listen to him read)

Why should you miss out on this because your ahead of the group?

Is it?
Many schools don't do guided reading ...mine doesn't (with any pupils) and never has.

www.mrspteach.com/2014/03/the-problems-with-guided-reading.html

Nothing to do with being ahead or behind or missing out

If you don't do guided reading, mrz, what do you do literacy wise with a child who can already read well beyond their years? (Genuine question!)

We do whole class reading using a quality novel which we study in far greater depth than is possible in a guided reading session. We use a programme called Big Reading so children develop the skills we call R.E.A.D. (Retrieval, Explore,Analysis, Deduce and infer) alongside read which is the ability to decode the text accurately.
The texts we use are challenging even for higher ability readers.

Mrz, that programme sounds interesting, do you have a link?

The problem with that is when the able reader reads year five books. The average year one wouldn't understand the vocabulary. You must spend half your time explains what the words mean? Before you even start on comprehension.

Have you had many gifted readers Mrz ( genuine question) by gifted I mean ed psych tested, incredible able children? Those that can read before school and have adult vocabulary.

This one?
www.andrelleducation.com/big-reading/

There isn't a problem as it's worked really successfully for more than a decade without spending half our time explaining vocabulary (although of course it's a great activity to collect new vocabulary -Pie Corbett calls it Magpie and Ros Wilson calls it stealing words - and of course dictionary skills)

I've taught children with hyperlexia ...with reading ages in the teens in nursery (EP assessed)

Yes that one
www.andrelleducation.com/product/the-big-reading-teachers-guide-introduction/

www.andrelleducation.com/product/big-reading-trumps-cards/

this is how another school do it

To answer the OP my daughter is at the end of Year 3. This year their teacher has used a challenges approach for lots of their work. So they can start on the easier versions of the topic and then those who are completing this successfully can then move onto a more challenging version. So a child who finds the first version easy can move on quickly to the harder one.
Also the children who are good at one area of work are not necessarily the ones who excel in another area.
For example, they've had rewards for developing neat handwriting and presentation this year. Some of the children who got the rewards first were not those who are the top of the cohort for reading.

www.mrspteach.com/2014/03/the-problems-with-guided-reading.html

www.andrelleducation.com/product/big-reading-mini-missions-introduction/

mrz what about EAL kids? Most of our year are EAL and if they can't understand the vocabulary I can't see the point in reading complicated texts in depth.

Then teach them the vocabulary.