Do bright children do better with an able cohort?

[rebus1]

Bit of an academic question really as I'm not really in a position to change anything for a year or so.

DS very bright and is just finishing year 2. According to the school's data the %s of level 3s very low- works out at 2 or 3 per class.

Should I be concerned - does this mean that the expectation for the Y3 classes as a whole next year will be quite low? I realise he will get appropriately differentiated work but I'm concerned he will spend lots of time listening to whole class input that he knows already.

Would he learn more in a school with a higher achieving cohort? I'm thinking faster pace, less need for constant revisiting etc.

Or am I just over worrying- he's only 7 and I can do stuff at home with him.

[Heck5897]

He's only going to be 2 years ahead of average, which is very common. It's not like he's a child genius, just a bit ahead.

If there are two or three level 3's in each class, there will lots of level 2a's who will be just slightly lower ability wise.

[Heck5897]

You need to check out the schools value added score as it will tell you how well the children do with the ability they have. It relates to how many sub levels children move through and will give a truer picture of wether children are reaching their true potential.

[mrz]

It would be very poor practice if the teacher ignored any group or individual child.

[hazeyjane]

it's just not practical to fully differentiate for one or 2

Surely teacher's should be doing this?

[Mumoftwoyoungkids]

I don't know about how much I learnt but I know that I was a lot happier when one of a group rather than one on my own. It's very lonely doing different work to everyone else all the time. And great fun when you get someone who is on your level and you get to be part of a team.

[madwomanbackintheattic]

Ds likes to be in a class with a less academically able cohort. This enables him to perform and excel when he wants to prove himself (maths) and to not bother doing any work and coast along staring out of the window and maintain an average grade the rest of the time.

He would hate to be in a class with his peers, as he would actually have to do some work, which he actively and categorically does not want to do.

They have moved him up and around and tested it. He will quite happily work at whatever level his classmates are doing. But he is inherently lazy and would really prefer to not bother, hence his own age group suits him fine.

Dd1 is thriving with an above average year group this year. The school are having to work really hard as the year group is stuffed full of bright young things. She loves it.

Dd2 spent two years having mandatory counselling at school because of the social issues caused by differences in ability. She wasn't remotely bothered, but the school were v concerned that she wasn't socially integrated. They had literally nothing in common. She had a lovely time with the very sensible counsellor though. 1-1 with an adult was great. that school did manage the classroom stuff very well, with different work set by ability, and dd2 was fully integrated in the classroom, just not socially.

[mrz]

So you set those who've grasped it quickly challenges? We use materials from NRich and STEM etc to develop mastery.

[mrz]

For the record we don't have ability groups at all and our bright children seem to thrive on it and turn out pretty well rounded in the process.

[mrz]

We don't use text books or computers to challenge pupils

[BathshebaDarkstone]

If this is true then my DD's fucked. She's definitely far brighter than anyone in her class. As I understand it, she's given similar but slightly more difficult work than the rest of the class. So if it's comprehension, for example, she'd be given more difficult questions.

[Lurkedforever1]

hazey as thetrouble says it just isn't practical. There's no excuse for not differentiating with the work set, but from an actual teaching point of view it's not possible to put the same amount of teaching time/attention into the group of one or two at the top end as there is into the much larger group. It's just not realistic to say eg you've spent 15 minutes on basic algebra suitable for most of the class, now spend 15 minutes on more complex algebra suitable for 1. Which isn't strictly speaking fair, but not something I feel is fair to blame a teacher themselves for.

[SweetAndFullOfGrace]

I was put into a class in year 5 and 6 (final two years of primary, not in the UK) where entry was based on an IQ test, so it was all bright kids.

We were laterally extended because we could finish the core curriculum faster therefore had some spare time - so we did lots of different extra assignments but nothing into the high school curriculum. It was just learning about the world and also doing creative things as well.

I loved it. Being surrounded by kids who didn't get aggressive when I used words they didn't understand was so liberating.

[mrz]

There are better ways to challenge pupils than give them workbooks or a computer screen

[Lurkedforever1]

dds favourite ever teacher used to print off a more complex version of whatever the rest of the class was doing and give it her to get on with while he explained the concept to the rest of the class, then while they were doing the work he'd come and see how she was getting on. She loved it because she didn't have to sit and listen to something she already understood, she loved the challenge of figuring it out herself, and it also meant she got some of the teachers time at her level.

[Indole]

I don't think you always need a highly able cohort. DD is very good at academic stuff and attends a school where about 10% of the class got L3s in Y2 SATs (so about three children in each subject, one of whom was DD). She is coming to the end of Y3 and her teacher says that she is working at what would have been a very high L4 edging into L5 for some subjects under the old expectations, which she mentioned off her own bat - I did not ask about levels. Her class is massively mixed, both socially and in terms of ability. A significant percentage of her class did not achieve L2 in last year's SATs (more than achieved L3) and they have a high proportion of FSM, EAL, SEN etc especially compared to other local schools. It isn't holding her back (and I have no plans to send her private at any stage). Most of her subjects are fully mixed ability - no ability tables at all except in Maths, where the class is split into two groups in different rooms. I can't say DD is necessarily always challenged to the full extent of her ability but I can say that whatever they are doing obviously is not harming her development at all.

[mrz]

Tricky questions versus practical applications ????

[mrz]

Interesting as one if your bugbears is putting kids on computers to stretch them trouble ????

[mrz]

Are you familiar with STEM or NCETM?

[mrz]

www.ncetm.org.uk/resources/45776