Outstanding State Primary or Outstanding Private from Reception?

[qiuyifan2000]

Hi! I have difficulty in choosing between an outstanding state primary and an outstanding private all through for DD into Reception! If money is not an issue, which one would you pick?

Academically, the state primary was ranked the 26th of all schools in England last year, achived 67% Level 5 in combined English and Maths, 30% Level 6 in Maths. The private school (4-18) has an even better result, ranked top 10 of all schools by SATs results (though many private schools don't do SATs), with 90% achived level 5, 20% achived level 6 English or Math; and GCSE ranked 50 out of 4000 schools.

The state school has 30 children per class (60 in a year), laptops on trolley, no music room, 1 PE lesson per week, only spanish from year 2, etc; whilst the private school has only 12 pupil per class (23 in a year), music room, PC room, sports hall, 3 PE lessons per week, Spanish/French from Reception, range of enrichment clubs. According to her nursery teacher's comment, DD is a bit quite in a large group, but quite active if in a small group. So a smaller class may be very beneficial to her?

BUT, the state school is only 5 minute drive from home, in a wealthy town, with a large outdoor playground. The private school is in the city centre, 20-30mins drive each way depending on traffic, has smaller outdoor area, and is GIRLS only. DD prefers state because of a bigger play field and a bigger slide (-_-).

Overall, I slightly prefer the private just for a piece of mind as I am afraid of regretting if anything goes wrong with the state later. But What worries me a lot is that I am not sure if it is a good idea to send her straight to a girls-only school at 4, and spend all her rest of school life in a single-sex environment? Or would it be better to stay in a mixed state school until 7+ or 11+, to gain some experience of socializing with boys??

In terms of academic performance, both school are doing well enough to me. Private school provides more enrichment programmes but I doubt how much DD will benefit from it in early years, and many enrichment classes can also availabe in my town too. SO is it worth of sending DD to girls-only school now, depriving her opportunity to explore the opposite sex?

BUT I also worried if it will become more difficult for her to gain a place at the private school at a later stage, as there will be more competetions and fewer places, especially at 11+. Would it be better to secure the place at Reception now to avoid not getting a place later? Another way to avoid 11+ exams is to start DD's private education at 7+, which means she will be in state school for only 3 years, and then comes the question if it is worth the hassle of moving DD around, or better just settle her into the private sector from Reception and all through to 6th form??

Ps: we are not in the highly competitive London area, but are thinking of moving into in a few years. If we move, we are keen to send DD to one of the highly selective privates there. If this counts another factor, would private Reception a better choice for now?

Research does in fact suggest that girls benefit from being educated separately but that is an academic benefit. However there are lots of social benefits to having a mixed sex school. I personally have found in junior classes that while groups of girls rev up the bitchness, the boy groups become more anchored and straightforward.

You say that the primary schools don't have specialist teachers but I think you will find that many of the teachers at the state school have a degree in something or other, then have bolted on a teaching post graduate qualification after.

I find it quite scary that someone can teach in private education and not have a teaching qualification.

We sent our DD to NGHS but withdrew her, mainly because of the HT was very mean, to an outstanding state school after two terms. We haven't looked back since. The outstanding state school, apart from slightly bigger class size, is better than the NGHS in every respect.

An issue with the Notts boys and girls high schools is the very limited packing spaces for drop offs and pickups. You'll see what I mean when you go there are school opening and closing times.

OP, if you are planning to move by end of KS1 then your DD will be fine at the State primary.

Hi Hairylegs007. Thanks for your comments. I found the value added score of the state school is 104.4 overall, range from 102-105 in different areas. Is this a good score? There isn't such score for the private school.

I do agree with your view towards single-sex environment at junior school level, and this is what I am worrying about. I like her to explore the world in a wider context so state school is much better.

In terms of local friends, I am not sure. DD has been in local nurseries for nearly 2 years, and have good friends there. The parents never invited DD to party or home play. I had informally invited them before but they seem not bothered. DD often asks their girls to visit our home but they seem to avoid it. My heart breaks...don't want to bother any more.

Hi Sunflower123456. Did you mean the head of the whole school, or head of the junior school. The head of junior has left the school by now, and they are trying to find a new one to take her position but don't know when. I will be glad if you could share your experience at NGHS in more detail Please!

I do find teachers at NGHS are not as nice as those at my particular state school. They are polite but feels far to reach, but teachers at the state school looks so happy and enjoying their teaching there. But I'd say not all state school teachers are that down to earth. The one we turned down was more like feeling of NGHS.

BUT I do like the parents at NGHS. They are very nice, friendly and easy to get on. We have already exchanged numbers with close by parents and plan to meet up someday. To the state school, I am still a bit fear of the parents there (because of my previous experience at nursery) and wonder if we can fit into their already established community.

Children at primary (no matter what the school) will be much friendlier and amenable to play dates. Not that many children have friends round to play before 4 yrs unless the mums are already friends (or they are a younger sib and there is an equivalent 2 children in another family).

qiuyifan2000 I will send you a private message.

Yes, parents at the NGHS are generally nice. Many are professionals, and those are not have real concerns for their childrens education. We are still in touch with some of them and our girls are still good friends. Our DD now goes to a state school in a good area, and parents there are also generally nice. You must have bad luck with your state school.

Yes, we also found teachers at the outstanding state school are more caring, but as you know not all state or private schools are the same.

Sunflower123456, do you mind telling me which school is you DD at now?

Already messaged you.

That is probably one of the best value added scored I've seen. Anything over 100 means that specific group of kids are working above what's expected. 104 means they are really pushing the kids academically

Why not start threads about those specific schools?

FabulousFudge, because there may not be many people know the schools anyway.

I'm going private for DD, but that's because my local state schools are (at best) a mixed bag, there aren't enough places for all the kids locally, I can't be dealing with the packed lunch police, and the private school is 200m from my front door.

BUT, I would say that you need to go with your gut. I think state would leave me in a permanent state of worry, whereas I trust the private school to provide a good and well rounded education, without excessive pressure. Not all privates are so great though - and some with good results only get them because they ensure that all the less-able kids leave, and you only later find out that all the remaining kids are being tutored to within an inch of their lives from the age of 4.

Here is a snap shot of the state school's value added scores and academic performance.

As a non-selective state school receiving all kinds of children, I think it is doing extremely well, because it can't ask anyone to leave even if he/she is the least able child.

But with the private, the welcome letter already said they would assess DD's ability at the end of year 2 to ensure she still suits the school environment, which in my word is that if she is under-performed she might have to leave.

I think I will probably choose the state after receiving so many suggestions from you all! The head teacher at the state has been moving up positions in the past few years and the school is moving upwards too. He is just around 40, used to be a banking manager but later found himself more interested in teaching. This is his 9th year at this school and his 1st year as HT. So he will probably stay as the head of the school for many years to come, which means I should not worry about the future if the school.

In contrast, the HT if NGHS is retiring soon and the HT of the junior school is still vacant. There is a lot of uncertainties about the school. The newly appointed Deputy Head used to be the D.H. of the catholic school in my area but I don't have a feel of him really, as I spoke to him at the parent evening and he seemed a bit hold up (I don't know how to describe). As I said, teachers at NGHS feel not as easy going as those at the state. NGHS might become better if they find good Head teachers later but at the moment it seems not that appealing to me.

PS: the catholic school used to be an outstanding state school delivering excellent results. But it was put into special measures last year as the previous head teacher resigned. The new head teacher was only appointed this April and then the Deputy Head is to leave in September. All these makes me think he leaves the school only because he realised though having been in the school for 10 years he had no hope of becoming the HT?

Ycoitsid.

The department of education said "For KS1 to KS2 value added, a measure of 101 means that on average each of the school's pupils made one term's more progress between KS1 and KS2 than the median - or middle value - for pupils with similar KS1 attainment. Conversely, a score of 99 means that the school's pupils made a term's less progress."

Does 104 means pupils make 4 terms more progress than the medians?? Sounds a bit unrealistic?

Excellent value added snap shot.

Also I notice that 80%/60% or so are working at level 5 in year 6. This means that 80%/60% of pupils are working two years ahead of the expected national average. Level 5 is the level a 13 year old would be working at. I'm pretty sure that there will also be a good number working at level 6 too, which is the average level for a 14 year old. satsguide.co.uk/what_are_sats.htm

Yes Ycoitsid, they have 30% pupil achieved Level 6 in Maths and 25% in Grammar & Spelling, but NO ONE achieved level 6 in Reading nor Writing. The private school had 13% passed Level 6 in English (combined), but only 17% in Maths.

I personally think the difference has something to do with the sex, as the state school has half boys, which drives down the figure in English, but better result in Maths?? In addition, NGHS has a long tradition of putting emphasis on Reading from Year R, and this is the Library there for.

It's really hard/rare to get a level 6 in writing I'm told. Seems much more common to get a maths level 6.

Can you ask the private school for their value added results?

Do private school get a value added score? I thought it is just a government's measurement for state schools.

When you are facing such choice it is decided by rational and emotional reasons. No one can help you with emotional reasoning. When we were selecting school for our DD we read all the info here and other forums and we were leaning towards one of the schools, but after we had visited all of them we changed our mind. The school we licked just clicked all right buttons in us. But again this is an emotional choice, if we gave the same choice to other people they would likely came to different conclusions.
The rational part of the discussion is where the community can help. You have to set priorities. Ours are:

1. Money. Huge money difference between state and private, however for us it was a bit evened as to get into a good state school we have to move. Since we rent, moving is not a very big deal, but the average rent inside the catchment areas of very good schools in my estimate is £250 more than outside (it is London).
2. If money sorted then the next question is what we want from the school. If it is only academic achievements then a good state primary will do. But everything else... I met Year 6 girls from both state and private schools and the difference in self-confidence is evident.
3. The quality of the private school. Personally, I would think hard over average private vs outstanding state. But in my opinion any above average private will trump outstanding state school.
4. Which environment the child will thrive in. Some children will be fine in state school, other won't. Some will benefit from large classes, others will get lost in them.
5. Secondary school. Getting from state primary to private secondary is difficult especially for boys. State primaries, especially good ones, are more concerned to get good SATs rather than anything else. All preparation is on you and finding a good tutor is not easy and definitely costly.
6. Commute. Do not underestimate this. It can cause problems.

In the nutshell, whatever decision you do it is not irreversible. You can change your mind few years down the road. In your shoes since you are going to move soon (thus outstanding state primary may not be available in the new place) and the money is not an obstacle I would chose private.