Outstanding State Primary or Outstanding Private from Reception?

[qiuyifan2000]

Hi! I have difficulty in choosing between an outstanding state primary and an outstanding private all through for DD into Reception! If money is not an issue, which one would you pick?

Academically, the state primary was ranked the 26th of all schools in England last year, achived 67% Level 5 in combined English and Maths, 30% Level 6 in Maths. The private school (4-18) has an even better result, ranked top 10 of all schools by SATs results (though many private schools don't do SATs), with 90% achived level 5, 20% achived level 6 English or Math; and GCSE ranked 50 out of 4000 schools.

The state school has 30 children per class (60 in a year), laptops on trolley, no music room, 1 PE lesson per week, only spanish from year 2, etc; whilst the private school has only 12 pupil per class (23 in a year), music room, PC room, sports hall, 3 PE lessons per week, Spanish/French from Reception, range of enrichment clubs. According to her nursery teacher's comment, DD is a bit quite in a large group, but quite active if in a small group. So a smaller class may be very beneficial to her?

BUT, the state school is only 5 minute drive from home, in a wealthy town, with a large outdoor playground. The private school is in the city centre, 20-30mins drive each way depending on traffic, has smaller outdoor area, and is GIRLS only. DD prefers state because of a bigger play field and a bigger slide (-_-).

Overall, I slightly prefer the private just for a piece of mind as I am afraid of regretting if anything goes wrong with the state later. But What worries me a lot is that I am not sure if it is a good idea to send her straight to a girls-only school at 4, and spend all her rest of school life in a single-sex environment? Or would it be better to stay in a mixed state school until 7+ or 11+, to gain some experience of socializing with boys??

In terms of academic performance, both school are doing well enough to me. Private school provides more enrichment programmes but I doubt how much DD will benefit from it in early years, and many enrichment classes can also availabe in my town too. SO is it worth of sending DD to girls-only school now, depriving her opportunity to explore the opposite sex?

BUT I also worried if it will become more difficult for her to gain a place at the private school at a later stage, as there will be more competetions and fewer places, especially at 11+. Would it be better to secure the place at Reception now to avoid not getting a place later? Another way to avoid 11+ exams is to start DD's private education at 7+, which means she will be in state school for only 3 years, and then comes the question if it is worth the hassle of moving DD around, or better just settle her into the private sector from Reception and all through to 6th form??

Ps: we are not in the highly competitive London area, but are thinking of moving into in a few years. If we move, we are keen to send DD to one of the highly selective privates there. If this counts another factor, would private Reception a better choice for now?

It is not "paperwork" that teachers need to fill out, it is completing assessment data to prove the children are making progress. This is what Ofsted want, not reams and reams of paper!

Regarding the two schools, I would go state until year 2. State education is NOT about learning through play all the way to the end of year 2. I suggest you take a look at the new curriculum and then you will understand there is rather more to it than that. The new curriculum will stretch brighter children. Any good school with bright children and supportive parents should get good SATs results. It is the progress the children make that counts. In both schools it does appear that they have pretty bright children in quite large numbers so the small classes at the private school don't actually count for much. Private schools are usually about headline statistics but you need to delve a bit deeper into progress stats if you can. 20-30 minutes is not a massive drive but 5 minutes away is appealing. Around me, the girls all-through 4-18 is selective at 11. They guard their league table results in the same way the grammar schools do.

You are very early in thinking about a highly selective school at 11. I would concentrate on where she would be happy right now and you can always move later if you want sport, languages, art, music, drama and all the knobs and whistles. Mostly from YR to Y2, your DD won't be a virtuoso on the violin, playing netball or lacrosse or starring in the school drama production so I would save these facilities for later. Teaching and learning is what matters right now.

Another thought is that 12 in a class is very small. I found my shy dd thrived in a class of 30, there were more possibilities for friendships. A good state school differentiates work, my dd was also more challenged in maths than in her current selective private school because she was in a special group that received much harder tasks. So a big class is not necessarily a bad thing.

Academic results fluctuate a lot in a smaller school, where a small handful of low ability kids can dent normally high results

The other thing to consider is that state teachers are fully qualified, while it's not always the case in private.

Lastly you can hire a tutor if needed. One hours tutoring a week is much more preferable to 10 hours a week in the car (20 hours for you!).

All you really need to do at home is listen to her read lots! That's easy enough

I was a very academic able student from secondary school onwards, every subject in the top range except Math (which is still very good to most others but not as good as the most intellect peers who can do well in more advanced maths). I found it was because I was not privately tutored in maths at a more advanced level at primary school, as I was over looked by my math teacher at that time. I found myself struggling competing with peers who did the tutoring throughout the whole rest of my school life, and the older we became the more gap between us as we were streamed into different class the first day into secondary school.

The math tutoring at that time just seemed to have opened another door for them to look at the world from a different dimension. So I feel sometimes it is just the right education you need to receive at the right age, and once you miss it you can hardly catch up. And I just don't want this to happen to my DD again. I just worry if we choose a state primary, she may miss something which cannot get back later on. Though I was still very good in my secondary and senior schools, but I could have done better if you know what I mean?

My kids are in private from Reception but I'd never ever chose single sex. Nor would I opt for a private school with just 10 or 12 in a class. 18/20 was what I was looking for. Also I discounted schools that did stuff like ballet during school hours. Not all girls only schools pander to this shit but some do. Girls get to do football and rugby at the junior department of our school.
Our state primary was graded outstanding with very high sats results. Didn't make me consider sending my kids there. I don't pay to ensure higher results that state educated kids. I pay to ensure more opportunities for fun. You certainly don't get this at every private school though.

There are 23 girls in reception year taught altogether by 2 teachers and 1 TA. But from year 1 they start to divide into 2 classes but will graduate have more student coming in and make the number to around 16 hopefully.

Sending 4 year old to a single sex school seems a problem to me too. Some say it's ok but some try to avoid. Both of us parents had no experience of being single-sex educated so I will never know if it is appropriate until DD goes there. My younger brother went to boys school 6th form and would have prefer in a mixed environment. But again boys and girls are different, and most research suggests girls tend to benefit more from single-sex education. I am lost...

Well, I had a terrible maths teacher at a top, private secondary school, so although I understand your worry, it's not unique to the state system. I think you need to choose with your gut instinct, which school appealed to YOU more.

You say you are lost, but to me your heart sounds with private....

Personally on your info I would probably go state. But with the caveat of seeing the school.

DD currently attends a swimming class and a tennis club locally after school, but these are not provided by the private school until years later. So if I go for private, I may have to slot these sessions into weekends timetable which seems a big trouble.

You are right. I lean towards private mainly because it will be a safer choice. The chance of things going wrong in the private school should be less than that in the state. I am just afraid of to be blamed by my DH as he is more keen to get private education than me.

I have read the evidence. It is mainly suggesting that girls are more likely to choose academic subjects if there aren't boys there. It is mainly based on evidence from high achieving state mixed schools and state single sex schools. But it also looks at high achieving private day schools. Girls achieve very well at these but then there are very few, certainly in the SE, academic day schools which are co-ed.

So IMO, the evidence I read seemed a little artificial. But then I do know a few parents who have opted for them and are very happy with them. I also think it's not representative of real life.

I don't think it is a safer choice. But if it is a more comfortable one then go for it.

I presume as an aside that you won't be having any other children - something to think about if single sex.

It will not be a more comfortable choice to go private as I have to drive 2 hours a day. I say it may be a safer way also because I won't be the only one to blame if the private school found to be not the right one later.

I still need to discuss this with my DH later as he is currently away. And thank you all for the opinions as now I have more to tell my DH.

We are planning to have another child, the second and the last, in 1-2 years time. On one hand, it will be much easier to drop and collect DD in state primary, but on the the hand, I will have less time watching her study.

There is usually a boy school next to a girl school, and other co-ed schools near by, so no worries if the 2nd is found to be a boy later.

I meant emotionally more comfortable.

I would say a sibling is worth factoring in though. Two hours a day in the car is not great with a baby, but could be really testing with a two year old. ...

state primary if you have the space there. More children to make friends with, academically super already - save the funds for later educational purposes

I really think the distance is going to wear you down and you'll wonder why on earth you're doing it by the end of reception if you don't choose the closer one which is also excellent. 100% the state primary, then move later if you choose

You are all right. A lot of factors indicate the state to be a better option at the moment. This is why I am struggling as realistically we should pick the state and make life easier, but emotionally it is hard to turn down either of them.

We will be moving to london area soon, especially if a year 1 place in a top private school becomes available next year, or we will wait for 7+ entry. As it seems impossible to get into an outstanding state school through in year tansit.

DH recently changed job and now works in Reading. We didn't move mainly because there isn't a suitable school there yet. He might change job again but must be in London. So the time we move to London area hugely depending on the availability of the school place.

I am just wondering if it will be easier to move between private schools, especially GDST schools, than from state to private? As the schools I am watching are even more academicly selective than the present private school. Will the state infant be enough to get into top london schools?

You are very keen on academic results, but what about all the other stuff?

Which HT did you like best?

Which school felt a happy place.

Where could you see your DC thrive?

Personally I think classes of 12 are too small really (not a drama, but not ideal) and MFl in primary/prep on the whole a bit of a waste of time.

sports and after school clubs in private better though.

Go private. State may be excellent for literacy/numeracy but most likely won't be for MFL, geography, history, science etc. Your DD will come in to contact with specialists in all of these areas from an early age.

Make sure to have plenty of playtime outside school with boys and join mixed classes for swimming/tennis/judo/cricket etc.

This will give your DD the best chance in senior school later.

I write as a governor of an outstanding primary and with experience of using private and state for my DC.

Thanks pickledsiblings. What you said is what we are concerned the limit of excellent primary beyond SATs. As neither of us had experience of private primary education, we had no idea if such limit does exist or if it it has noticeable impact on DD's development.

Taking all the other factors into account, like commute time, 2nd child problem, extra mixed-sex classes in weekend, which are all the benefits of state school, do you still think the benefit of private primary education is worth the sacrifices from the others? (Sorry I just assume you didn't read all the posts. )

Go state. I write as a governor of an outstanding primary too and with experience of both private and state for my DC.

My very able DD has loved her state school. When she was 3, I might have considered a girls only environment and smaller classes. But, as others have said, having 30 in a class is brilliant because she has a much bigger friendship group to choose from. I'm so glad I didn't base her education on what she was like at 3 because she has already changed so much. Also, the work is so differentiated and she ends up working in different groups so the class sizes are completely irrelevant as far as academics are concerned. She is also doing French with a specialist teacher and certainly has lessons called geography, science etc so no idea why others suggest state won't be excellent for this subjects.

By the way, her state school also manage to get high numbers of DC into private schools at 11, including St. Paul's (boys and girls), latymer upper, LEH etc etc. oh, and usually over 10 offered places at the Tiffins schools each year. So, if your DC is able, I really think that a state education is not condemning them to a second rate existence!

Thanks Nowfeeltheneedtopost. It seems your local primary is doing so well. My state primary feeds most of pupils into state comp at 11+. There are only a few go to the selective private schools. Is it mainly because of the location as yours is in London?