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Primary education

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Too few male teachers in primary schools?

183 replies

edupak · 22/06/2015 16:49

I'm interested in parents' views concerning what I rightly or wrongly perceive as the ongoing feminisation of staffing in primary schools. Most state primary schools seem unable to attract a balanced mix of male and female staff. Is this necessarily an issue? Several friends have told me that they would prefer their boys to have a mix of male and female role models/teachers. Would be great to hear other views/experiences...

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YonicScrewdriver · 24/06/2015 12:31

Are you or your DH retraining to be a teacher, edupak?

YonicScrewdriver · 24/06/2015 12:33

Me? I'm fighting the patriarchy, dear. Root of all gender imbalance.

rabbitstew · 24/06/2015 12:33

edupak - no, I don't hate men or male teachers. What an odd conclusion. I am happily married to my husband, my parents are both still happily married and take an active part in the lives of their grandchildren, I have two brothers and two sons, have always enjoyed working with men (more than women, tbh) and have both male and female friends. When you have to resort to telling other people they don't like half the population, you surely have to know that you are being a bit pathetic and doing an excellent job of showing that you are not ruled by evidence or facts, but just offensive opinions...

However, I thoroughly agree with you (ie it is my opinion) that children do better with both of their biological parents taking an active part in their upbringing, that men and women have different things to offer and that men and women should take active parts in the lives of children, whether through volunteering or work. I just don't agree with your conclusions that therefore women in primary schools are feminising little boys because they don't understand their hormonal chemistry as well as men. They are not and should not be bringing our children up for us, they are just one small part in a fractured society, and at least they are largely a relatively reliable and stable part, unlike the lives of many of the children attending them. If society is damaging itself by allowing families to break apart too easily and men are failing to come forward to volunteer to read with children, do maths with them, coach them in sports, run clubs, etc, the answer is not to blame primary schools for feminising little boys because there are too many women in them. It really isn't the fault of primary schools that society is failing our children.

edupak · 24/06/2015 12:41

Worse still we had grade inflation at the same time that our position relative to the rest of the world was falling. Left wing con. Had labour continued in power then eventually the average grade achieved by students would have been A* no doubt.

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rabbitstew · 24/06/2015 12:44

At least now you are showing your true colours, edupak - you aren't really interested in boys' hormones, you're interested in league tables. Grin

edupak · 24/06/2015 12:47

YonicScrewdriver: Good for you - at least you're honest and I don't blame you if your efforts are directed at Government and Business etc, they need feminising, just as schools could do with some defeminising...

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FrozenAteMyDaughter · 24/06/2015 12:49

Please stop being so patronising edupak. Rabbitstew has made some good points. Whilst you may not agree with them, at least do her and everyone on this thread the courtesy of addressing them in a civilised fashion.

As to your last post, it appears that your concerns have moved on from the issue of a lack of male teachers at primary school level, a point which most people agree is something which should be addressed if possible, to general politically motivated criticism of the teaching profession and Government policy on it.

What I find difficult to understand is that you clearly consider the teaching of children to be an important issue, or why create this thread? Yet, it is not important enough to ensure that those who carry out that teaching are properly qualified to do so. It may be that current teacher training does not ensure that all teachers are perfect, but what course of training does - doctors and lawyers undergo extensive academic and on the job training and not all of them will make excellent practitioners. That is not a reason to let anyone who fancies have a go at either of those jobs.

Teacher training may or may not require tweaking but the answer is not to bypass it completely. My memory of being taught in the days before qualification was mandatory was that it did not necessarily produce a large number of well-motivated and interested teachers with excellent strategies for engaging their pupils. Quite the opposite, with some notable exceptions. The advantage teachers had in those days was they could keep pupils quiet and learning, regardless of whether they were engaged, by judicious use of corporal punishment. Not a tool teachers have available to them any more.

What I also really don't understand is why you seem to think that the need to qualify as a teacher is the bar that is holding back men from entering the profession. A requirement to train doesn't stop men entering any other profession. It is far more likely that the problems lie elsewhere - societal norms that deter men from taking a career involving interaction with young children. Rabbitstew mentions pre-school settings and the point is true there too - you hardly ever find nurseries or pre-schools with male carers in them, and part of that is because men think it is not a job for them and, God knows, there is no doubt that eyebrows are raised when men do go into such jobs.

That is where we need to be focussing our attention. Changing peoples' attitudes as to what is a suitable career for a man.

FrozenAteMyDaughter · 24/06/2015 12:51

Sorry - I see the thread has moved on since I started typing.

rabbitstew · 24/06/2015 13:57

In conclusion, edupak, I think a drive to encourage more men to go into primary school teaching would be fantastic, but it's so much better to keep it simple, because I don't actually know anyone who would disagree with the basic premise. Just don't start commenting on the feminisation of little boys, hurling ridiculous accusations at people that they are man-haters, and accusing the teaching profession of being too left wing if you want to garner real support.

rabbitstew · 24/06/2015 14:35

FrozenAteMyDaughter - I suspect edupak seems to think that the need to qualify as a teacher is the bar that is holding men back from entering the profession because edupak has very strong political views and it therefore suits edupak to conflate various issues [and come to the conclusion that the lack of male primary school teachers is all a female left-wing conspiracy]. Wink

FrozenAteMyDaughter · 24/06/2015 14:45

I suspect you are right rabbitstew. But why must everything always be the fault of women? Surely, at some point, men have to take responsibility for something themselves?

Also, and I know I may as well be saying this to myself, where is edupak's evidence for any of this (apart from the widely acknowledged fact that there are few male primary teachers)? Where is the evidence that boys are being feminised, that schools are feminised environments (what would a male primary school look like?), that female HTs are scheming to keep men out, that teacher training is ruining education? Everything he/she says is just bald assertion. Quite possibly just assertions he/she made up on the spot to support his/her political agenda.

Maybe he/she'll be back with the evidence to back all this up soon, but I am not holding my breath.

mrz · 24/06/2015 17:08

There have been drives to get men into teaching getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/explore-my-options/training/troops-to-teachers

mrz · 24/06/2015 17:10

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/bankers-fail-to-make-grade-for-teaching-1760706.html ... Not very successful drives but drives nonetheless

edupak · 24/06/2015 17:53

FAMD It is pretty obvious that primary schools with only female teachers will be feminine in atmosphere, tone and mood. Does one really need evidence of this?
rabbitstew: I'm sorry if I upset you, not my intention. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on most points raised.

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mrz · 24/06/2015 18:05

How many primary schools have you actually visited for any length of time?
People are different (even female type people) and not all women are feminine just as not all men are masculine.

Have you considered that in any year your child is likely to spend just 10% of their time under "female" influence ...

YonicScrewdriver · 24/06/2015 18:09

I'm still waiting to find out if you are encouraging all the men you know to volunteer at local schools?

WaxyBean · 24/06/2015 18:13

We're clearly in a minority with a male head, deputy head and 4 out of 16 class teachers being male. The school have also done a lot to help fathers support their children's learning (bring your dad to school morning was v popular!). Great for the kids to have male role models, but school isn't the only place for these and better for kids to have a great teacher than a token mediocre male.

And fwiw my younger brother is a reception teacher, and his head of year is male too. So it does happen just not as common in primary schools as it might be. And I think that often having a number of male teachers makes the school more attractive to male NQTs.

rabbitstew · 24/06/2015 18:19

edupak - don't worry, you didn't upset me at all, although accusing me of hating men and asking whether I've been taking hallucinogenic substances indicates to me that I upset you and that you were, actually, trying to upset me! I'm quite happy to agree to disagree with you and I can understand your point of view, even if I don't fully share it.

noblegiraffe · 24/06/2015 18:21

That is why all research shows that children do better with parents from both genders

Er, no it doesn't. This study released last week says the overwhelming consensus is that there is no difference in a range of social and behavioural outcomes.

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150615103946.htm

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 24/06/2015 18:23

My DS had no male teachers in his primary school - I think there are a couple now. They school was to "soft" - no rough and tumble games allowed (Bring back British Bulldog), no competition.... and many of the NQTs struggled with the discipline. And of course the sport suffered.

I assume there are fewer males because there is not the same opportunity for promotion as in senior schools

teacherwith2kids · 24/06/2015 18:37

"And of course the sport suffered. "

Why? My DC's primary, despite having several male teachers and a male head, had a PE leader who was a woman, and BRILLIANT. Absolutely inspiring, coached all the teams, won all the cups ...

teacherwith2kids · 24/06/2015 18:40

The main driver in reducing 'rough and tumble' play is, funnily enough, parental pressure and their threats of litigation... as a school we have received a number of such threats just in the past weeks, based on absolutely normal playground trips and scrapes. In a world in which a bad cut on a knee because of a playground tumble brings health and safety executives calling when a parent has called in lawyers is much more effective at reducing rough and tumble than any gender imbalance amongst the staff!

mrz · 24/06/2015 18:43

Almost half our staff are male yet none are particularly "sporty" in the traditional sense ... Yet we continue to do well (win) in all the competitions organised by our sports partnership.

edupak · 24/06/2015 18:50

noblegiraffe: '... in a range of social and behavioural outcomes' meaning a limited range, exactly my point.

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