Too few male teachers in primary schools?

[edupak]

I'm interested in parents' views concerning what I rightly or wrongly perceive as the ongoing feminisation of staffing in primary schools. Most state primary schools seem unable to attract a balanced mix of male and female staff. Is this necessarily an issue? Several friends have told me that they would prefer their boys to have a mix of male and female role models/teachers. Would be great to hear other views/experiences...

Sorry but I think the salary is fine.

Not entirely sure why salary is supposedly an issue for men and not women.

I don't think careers in primary schools are determined by gender they are determined by choice ... Many men choose not to teach in primary.
Pay isn't great, compared to jobs the private sector, for someone with a good degree. Work/life balance sees many leaving the profession within the first few years after qualification. Teachers are continually criticised by parents, the press and the government so it's hardly surprising that there is talk of a teacher shortage.

Add that to the fact there are more opportunities for progression in secondary and in primary progression often moves a teacher out of the classroom.

I agree, it s a shame there aren't more.

We've got 5 male teachers in my junior school, out of a staff of 12. There's one in each year group and it works really well.

They aren't treated any differently than the female staff.

I absolutely cannot stand this attitude. Teaching is one of the few female dominated careers that has a decent salary. Not amazing, no, but not bad either.

I know several male teachers and each is treated as though he can do no wrong. Each is the 'golden boy' at their school.

My DS has always had female teachers and has somehow managed to struggle through . I was a LP for a lot of that time too but never felt the need for him to 'need' a male teacher.

And OP, people talking about your son breaking things are referring to your post where you said

He will need some male staff we feel who may have more inbuilt empathy for boys who like to charge around/break things etc

Sorry meant to to add, I agree with the PP who said that they would like to see it go both ways - more women in board rooms etc. That's fair!

" I know several male teachers and each is treated as though he can do no wrong. Each is the 'golden boy' at their school. "

exactly, that is how the 'oddballs' got away with acting as they did.

I think the individual teacher makes the difference rather than the sex of the teacher. My DS is really outdoorsy and very active and he really enjoyed the alpha male bushcraft leader at Supercamps. So if you feel that your DS needs male role models, you could always search for those out of school.

Don't get me wrong - they're nice guys, good enough teachers but not the outstanding, amazing, innovative teachers they're made out to be by SMT and parents. Or, rather, no more so than their female counterparts

I don't think anyone has mentioned that teaching is much more than just a career. I do cringe at the word "calling" (like we are nuns!) but it HAS to be something you really want to do. Do we want men to sign up because it's well paid? Offers them a better chance of promotion? Or do we want teachers who are passionate about teaching and learning and have a genuine care for the children they teach? Personally I wouldn't advise anyone into the job as a great career. Yeah I think it's well paid, but the hours are getting beyond ridiculous. I can't maintain a balance with my family life and work AND be the teacher I want to be. The lack of respect for the profession is also absolutely disheartening. But then again if you are a man you do get that instant respect until you prove you are shit whereas a female teacher now has to prove they are not shit until they get the respect!

My DC went to primary school with a good balance of male and female teachers. Somehow managed to never be in a class with one of them. Don't choose a school based on that - there are no guarantees!

I'm secondary but in a girls' school and recruiting men can be an issue. We have about 10 male teachers out of maybe 70. Four are well known for being not dreadfully competent with poor results and high numbers of parental complaints. There is also one female member of staff that falls into the same category but I doubt she'll be around much longer. Two of the male teachers are outstanding practitioners... The other 4 men don't stand out either way. Schools seem much more unwilling or unable to get rid of incompetent men than incompetent women for some reason. We've had a fair few rubbish female teachers since I've been at the school but they never last long. The men seem to stick around.

In a mid sized inner city primary with 2 form entry we have 10 male teachers/TAs one of whom is the head. I think once you've got men it's easier to get more as the whole atmosphere in the staff room is different. Ours are chuffed they have enough for 5 a side football teams now.

OP - ignoring the more inflammatory parts of your posts, I will merely ask one question about how you will ensure your DS has an 'appropriate' balance of male and female teachers. Are you opting for independent or state education? If you are opting for state education, once you have worked out which schools you have a realistic chance of getting a place at (which may only be one school) then tried to work out a way to avoid the local 'sink' school, then the male:female staff ratio will pale into insignificance.

In DD's tiny village school the children are taught in 3 classes - class 1 is taught by the HT (female) and comprises of nursery, reception and Year 1, class 2 is taught by a female teacher and comprises of Year 2 and 3, Class 3 is taught by a male teacher and comprises of Year 4, 5 and 6.

The male teacher has only been there 2 years, but he is a fabulous addition to the school - not because he is male - but because he is an excellent teacher who is fully committed to the school and understands that a small village school requires a different level of dedication.

Previously the HT taught class 3 and the school had struggled to get an excellent and fully committed EYFS teacher; thus the HT made the bold decision to advertise for a teacher in all year groups and to appoint the most suitable candidate.

The best and most suitable candidate happened to be a male KS2 teacher.

My dd will be having a male teacher next year. Despite my efforts to bring her up as a good feminist she has developed preconceptions about male and female teachers. She thinks that a male teacher will be more angry in the classroom. Hopefully in the coming year she will learn differently.

I think it takes a strong personality for a man to choose to go into primary age teaching in this modern climate. I think if it were me I would want cctv in the classroom at all times.

I know several male teachers and each is treated as though he can do no wrong. Each is the 'golden boy' at their school.

I totally agree with this!

Is this what you want to see more of, OP?

More male teachers than female teachers and my DS's primary school

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edupak - are you a woman? And if so, do you think you empathise poorly with your ds, don't understand him very well and you hate the way he runs around, breaking things? Or are you a man who thinks your wife/partner/ex has poor empathy and understanding for your ds? If not, then why are you imputing such inadequacies onto others, and if yes, then I do feel very sorry for your ds.

Personally, I do think the ideal would be for a mix of outstanding male and female teachers for my children, but that is not always possible. I would rather a primary school were recruiting outstandingly good teachers than accepting less good teachers just to fulfil a quota. As for boys in particular needing male teachers, I think that's a load of twaddle - I think boys AND girls benefit from both male and female role models in today's society.

I agree it would be better to have more male teachers so long as they are held to the same standards. If boys don't experience male teachers then surely they are less likely to think of teaching as a profession that perhaps might suit them someday.

In a perfect world everyone regardless of gender would have the same opportunities. But I find the prevailing MN attitude that men/women, boys/girls to not have intrinsic differences to be absurd. Both genders have very different hormonal profiles and very different bodies. To think you will get the same behaviour doesn't make sense to me. We aren't blank slate units. It's been a good 15 years since I sat in a university classroom but when I was there we watched heaps of videos from studies showing the behavioural differences in young children. It doesn't mean you should discriminate based on a difference but to deny it doesn't help either.

PP is quite right I think. How sad that we have arrived at a point when men are under suspicion because they are men, thus perpetuating the problem of recruiting male teachers. Children need male as well as female role models in primary schools and if it's not happening we should change our thinking, in the same way that parliament and PLCs are changing theirs by recruiting more women. Society does better when neither gender dominates the thinking, processes, solutions and actions in our organisations. I know there must be lots of female Heads who would like to employ good male staff, but I'm sure there are others who like a feminised environment which they can control whilst they pay lip service to the notion of gender equality. I'm just as sure there are male Heads, more common in private schools, who employ mostly men and the children are denied the different attributes and influences that different genders bring to class, For example, a child may need some maternal support at one time and some paternal support on another occasion. Gender does matter not because one is better than the other but because balancing their influences is vital. Mankind has not yet as far as I know perfected the breeding of super androgynous beings who can be maternal/paternal simultaneously. Primary schools which have few if any male staff should try harder to recruit good ones and be named and shamed if they don't.

edupak, how can schools recruit male teachers if there are fewer out there for the reasons discussed by people above? And if having more male teachers is the only way for a school to avoid being named and shamed, the end result is going to be that they will feel forced to take a male applicant over a female applicant regardless of which is the better candidate.

And this: I know there must be lots of female Heads who would like to employ good male staff, but I'm sure there are others who like a feminised environment which they can control whilst they pay lip service to the notion of gender equality. Where is your evidence for this? What makes you think that the reason we have fewer male primary teachers than we should is down to female HTs not wanting to appoint them rather than the attitude of society generally that primary school teaching is not a job for a man?

Why is everything always the fault of women? Maybe men should take a good look at themselves now and again.

FAMD

If you read my post I said male Heads were probably just as guilty. Why does society promote primary school teaching as a job for women? Just with all occupations we need to challenge this rather than just accept it. We are not making enough effort. We are all to blame; blinded by cutural conditioning no doubt.
Also there are far more female single parents than male ones, most of whom do an amazing job. So with this large group of mothers in mind, I suggest it is even more important that our primaries have more good male teachers and Heads do far more to attract them rather than just say that's the way it is. We do our children a massive disservice otherwise.

edupak, you did mention male heads mostly emplying men, yes, but your reference to female HTs was far more pejorative, suggesting that some of them may "like a feminised environment which they can control whilst they pay lip service to the notion of gender equality", for which you have absolutely no evidence.

On the rest of your post, I agree there is a need to challenge cultural conditioning, if that is what is resulting in fewer male primary teachers, and I suspect it probably is. However, starting by blaming the HTs and schools for not employing men is going about it backwards. Society, the Government, whoever, needs to begin by making primary teaching an acceptable choice of career for men as well as women. Until there are more good male teachers out there for HTs to appoint, the schools simply can't employ them and you can name and shame all you like - it won't change the situation. Unless there is some massive pool of unemployed male primary teachers I don't know about, of course.

The question is, how do we go about doing that? Ideally, boys would see male teachers doing the job, but there aren't enough to go around, so they think of teaching as a job for women and so the cycle continues. It is difficult.

In what way does society actually promote primary teaching as a women's job though?

I genuinely think that the reason for the imbalance lies in the simple fact that teaching little children seems to be a job which appeals more to women than men. And I'm not sure there's much you can do about that. If you started offering any kind of incentives, you would risk attracting men who didn't really want to do the job.

And I think the idea that female teachers lack 'inbuilt empathy ' to deal with boys is utter nonsense. Do you lack 'inbuilt empathy' and understanding for your son, OP?

I have taught (secondary) for 20 years, and I'd say that if anything the female teachers I've met tend to be more empathetic towards both boys and girls than the male teachers.