Transition from Scottish to English education

[Lindyloo17]

Hi all, we are currently living in Scotland and are moving very soon to London. However, I have just been made aware that my son (who has just turned 5 and in his pre-school year at nursery) will have to skip primary 1, or Reception as it's known down South and go with his peers into year 1 (which is our equivalent of primary 2).
He's an intelligent boy but has obviously never experienced school and to go from such a play led, easy going environment like his nursery to skip a whole year of school seems completely unrealistic.
Schools have said there's nothing they can do and he has to go into a class based on his age and d.o.b.
Has anyone came across this before and could offer some suggestions or advice. It's making us completely rethink the move and therefore my husbands job security. Due to sign the lease for our new house in London tomorrow so we don't have a lot of time to consider things. Thanks in advance.

Too young for school yet. Homeschool for a year and do some homework. I did the same when dd was age 7 and it was inspirational for both of us. You will not be popular with the authorities but they just think they know best: they don't!

It sounds worse than it is! And it is definitely NOT a good reason to pass up a good job opportunity.

Reception year in schools in the UK is play based learning. So kids in state schools do not spend the year at the desks doing sums and reading (private prep schools is another story).

Initially, your son would be a little behind, but kids catch up really quickly at that age. Remember - at 4 it can take several months to learn alphabet sounds and start putting sounds together into words. At 5 - it takes a lot less time. (and at 6, which is a more normal time to start formal schooling, it takes about a month, but let's not digress).

A friend's family moved to the UK from abroad, with their Y1 girl having only some basic English. She started Y1 in September. It was a little difficult for her at the beginning - but mostly because of the language. By now - she not only learned to chat away with her friends, she also reads and writes. Just like all of them.

Your boy is not changing countries. He should do just fine. You might need to give him a bit of extra support, at least initially.

Good luck!!

Primary 1 in Scotland is more like year 1 in England. Reception is more comparable with the last year of nursery in Scotland.

Have you tried to find a school place in London, though? I'd be more concerned about that if I were you!

My advice would be get the postcode of your new house and put it into reports.ofsted.gov.uk/ then select the "Distance from your home" option.

You want to look at primary schools (similar to Scottish primary schools) and infant schools (up to age 7 only). Then call the schools nearest to your home and ask if they currently have a space in year 1 starting in September.

They will all tell you that the local authority handles admissions, but plead that you only want some quick info and they will tell you. Many will say they do not have a space, but keep calling down the list.

The issue is that in key stage 1 (reception, year 1 and year 2) there is a cap of 30 children per class. So, you'll need someone to leave before you can get the place.

He'll be 100% fine.

Y1 is often also fairly play based. But even if it isn't it is designed for 5 year olds.

I'd be more concerned with the financial aspect of the move.

Last thing to say, we moved to England and DS2 went straight into year 1, having not been to school before. I spent a little time teaching him to count and to recognise letters and read the easiest books to make up for having missed reception before we moved.

I was worried that he'd be behind, but he was ahead of the class. They really don't learn much at all in reception except how to be in school.

Some good advice. However can I say that the idea of being 5 somehow shortening the time taken to learn to read and write is wrong. Yes the child is older but there is still the same amount of content to learn.

My your logic mrz - the kid who starts in Y1 would never catch up with those who started at Reception. It would take that kid a whole of Y1 to cover what the other kids did the year before, and then he would cover Y1 material in Y2, etc.

By the same logic British kids would always be 2 years ahead of their continental peers just because in the UK they start two years earlier. Not quite the case.

The amount of content to learn may be the same, but readiness to learn is not. So, while it is possible to teach an average 3-4 y.o to read, it would take a lot longer than teaching an average 5-6 y.o.

The main point here for the OP that yes - her kid would be fine and will catch up after missing Reception.

Hi all,
Thanks so much for your speedy advice. It has really helped to put my mind at ease.
Yes, we have spoken to the school that we are applying to ascertain if a place is available, as we would hopefully be living so close to the school (we haven't finalised on the house as to the uncertainty with the schooling) they have indicated that there's a good chance, #2 on the wait list so far - wondering what will happen if he doesn't get in though? The school system is very different in Scotland so I'm in the dark with all if this.
They seem very unphased by the fact that he would miss a year and just said it's up to parents and teachers to assess him and support him to catch up. We are looking into a tutor for 6 months, do you think this would prove helpful?
Tbh, it's his confidence I'm concerned about, he is already going to be 'different' in terms of accent, starting a year after all other in his class etc and he is intelligent but very sensitive, it's taken him a long time to have the confidence to approach teachers etc at nursery.
Var123 - did you also move from Scotland? Thank you for the comparison to your child, hearing that they didn't miss much by side-stepping reception year has settled my fears quite a bit.
Everyone's advice is greatly appreciated and gave me alot to think about, yesterday this news seemed like a deal breaker for our move but now it just seems like a hurdle. X

Your logic is flawed I'm afraid. English has a more complex alphabetic code than other European languages so there is more to learn. Languages such as Finnish have a straight forward one sound one spelling. In Finnish there are 23 sounds and 23 letters, whereas in English there are 44 sounds and approximately 180 ways in which they can be written. A child learning to read in a language with a shallow orthography such as Finnish, Greek, Spanish can learn in a few months rather than years. It's not my logic but a well documented fact.

If your logic was correct every just 4 year old would end the reception year behind their older peer. Yes maturity can be a factor but it's often impossible to know who are the almost 5s and who are the nearly 6s come the end of July as they have all progressed. Children who have already acquired the basics in reception can build on those foundations whereas a child starting in Y1 has to complete 2 years in just 39 weeks ... not impossible but not the easy task you seem to be suggesting and not without lots of support from school and home.

My fairly limited experience (8 or 9 children) of teaching children who transferred from the Scottish system has been that I've had to put extra support in place for a year sometimes longer.

mrz, please don't patronise the Scottish education system by implying that any child that comes from Scotland will need extra support. Do your research about the countries compare before worrying the OP.

Mrz - What would you expect a child to be able to do at the point of entry into year 1 (such that they would not need any extra support)?

Maybe know all the letters in the alphabet and the sounds they make? Know a couple of the blended sounds like "sh"? Count to 20? Know their number bonds to 10? Write their name or write a couple of simple sentences e.g. I like the dog?

As I said it is my (limited)experience based on less than ten children no intention of patronising but it's irresponsible to assume that a child who hasn't begun school is not going to require help and unfair on the child.

From personal experience, the thing that children, who enter school for the first time later than their peers, need help with is the terminology of school.

e.g. Ds1 was very upset when he got into a lot of trouble in his first couple of weeks of school - in year 3. The teacher had asked him if he'd done his homework and he replied that he didn't know.

He'd done the work, and it was in his bag. The problem was that he didn't know he was supposed to get it out of his bag and put it in the tray and he didn't know that the sums he had done the night before were called "homework". Similarly he didn't know what a whiteboard was, or school dinners were.

I think he felt like he was in a foreign land without a guide for the first few weeks, which in a way, is exactly what he was. It really undermined his confidence.

Lindyloo17 - I sent you a PM

To know one way the 44 sounds of English can be written, be able to use this to read and spell words containing those spelling for the sounds. Read books at an appropriate level with some fluency and to understand what they have read and to able to answer simple questions.
In writing I would expect them to write 3 or more simple sentences linked to a theme varying the opening (more than simple lists and not all I like or I went ) and readable without the child's help, letters correctly formed starting at the correct place and using correct sequence of movements.
Knowing the alphabet isn't vital (although most will know the alphabets song) and we wouldn't teach that letters make sounds

Maths
To accurately count 20 objects or actions matching numbers to numerals, know one more and one less than a number, know pairs of numbers that add up to numbers up to 10 and able to apply known addition facts to subtraction.
Know the doubles of numbers up to double 5
Order numbers to 20
Know and name common 2D& 3D shapes
Know positional language
Know o'clock night/day
Use non standard measure and able to order by size, weight, capacity

Would be basics

Having support isn't a negative thing so I'm not sure why the idea has caused offence.
I'm sure any child moving into a different system would struggle at first.

We did it in reverse, and then came back to London again.

DD3 did a full year of reception in England, then started P1 in Scotland. We found that (having done Y1 with DD1 & DD2) that P1 was much more like Y1. They sat at desks a lot of the time (never in YR in England), teachers were relatively very strict, etc. The main difference was that DD3 starting P1 able to read confidently, having been doing it for a year in YR. The P1 teacher couldn't get her head round that at all. (I'm still furious about that 5 years later! ). Obviously I don't know your DC, but do try not to worry about that aspect of it too much.

Because English schools don't have the flexibility with start dates that there is in Scotland, you may also find there is a broader range of age and ability within the classes here. (That was our experience, may not always be the case, and will depend upon the size of school) DD3 was in a class in Scotland with children born within a few weeks of her (composite) but here has a full range from September to August. The difference that makes was particularly marked in the lower years.

That said, I'd say in London you are likely to find teachers (and other pupils) more used to children coming in with different accents (or languages) and school experiences. DDs school back in London has had numerous children starting with no English at all. A Scottish accent is (in our experience) seen as "cute".

Try to get as much detail from the school as you can about how the day goes, and little rules like when they are allowed toilet and water breaks, or where they get the fruit at break, or whatever, and I'm sure it will be fine.

All of this learned during reception, else extra support is required in year 1? Wow! Your school is a lot more demanding than either of the 2 I sent my children to.

I wouldn't worry about the accent differences. There are places in England where the children mostly have the same accent, and could conceivably be resistant to an outsider coming in, but they are not anywhere in London that I can think of!

How would it be the other way? When I grew up in Scotland, the Scots could be very unpleasant to the English outsiders. There was a slogan over the motorway "English Go Home" for quite a long time. DH is English and our children have English accents too now, so DH uses this as an excuse to never be willing to contemplate moving up there.

Var we are a bog-standard primary school those are EYFS goals

Yet, only the top tables of the children at both primary schools I helped in could do those things at the start of year 1. It wasn't just one year, but two schools and several years.

The curriculum changed. Previously reception children had to recognise numerals 1-9 now it's 1-20 now children have to be able to double and halve numbers. Previously they had to write their own name and begin to write simple sentences now they are expected to write simple sentences that can be read by others without the child's help. Previously they had to read familiar words and simple sentence now they have to read simple sentences and understand them and be able to decode unfamiliar words.

The goal posts keep moving var!

In my experience of moving from Scotland to England, the years are shifted by 6 months, rather than the full year. So, if he's done nursery in Scotland, think of him being 6 months in to reception, education-wise, as reception is play based, and learning to be in school, listen etc. Year 1 sort of bridges P1 and P2. So, it's only 6 months he'll be skewed out, if you see what I mean?

You'll have the gap between the end of the Scottish school year, and the start of the English school year, if you can take some time off work, and do some phonics and basic number ordering etc, he'll have no bother slotting right in. I am surprised at mrz's comments, as usually she speaks sense, and wonder if it's not knowing the system, or just casual racism. He is moving from an excellent education system, to another good education system, which have broadly similar curriculae and aims, there is no reason he shouldn't be fine.