Transition from Scottish to English education

[Lindyloo17]

Hi all, we are currently living in Scotland and are moving very soon to London. However, I have just been made aware that my son (who has just turned 5 and in his pre-school year at nursery) will have to skip primary 1, or Reception as it's known down South and go with his peers into year 1 (which is our equivalent of primary 2).
He's an intelligent boy but has obviously never experienced school and to go from such a play led, easy going environment like his nursery to skip a whole year of school seems completely unrealistic.
Schools have said there's nothing they can do and he has to go into a class based on his age and d.o.b.
Has anyone came across this before and could offer some suggestions or advice. It's making us completely rethink the move and therefore my husbands job security. Due to sign the lease for our new house in London tomorrow so we don't have a lot of time to consider things. Thanks in advance.

Oh, chocolate it's always casual racism. It's so common to hear English teachers believing that they are better than teachers in Scotland. They think that they English system is better. Real superiority complex. Not all obviously, some.

Unfortunately for them, the research simply doesn't reflect that belief www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25216523

That's quite an offensive accusation chocolate!

It has nothing to do with race and only indirectly with the education system insofar as you can't expect a child who has had a year (or 6 months) less time for learning and who has followed a completely different curriculum to be able to pick things up in a new curriculum from day one without needing support. If you've not learnt to read yet and all the other children have been reading for two or more terms do you think overnight catchup is realistic.
Sorry I didn't realise that some people were so sensitive perhaps instead of crying racism you should think why a later start may mean that the other children will have already learnt things that haven't been covered

Unfortunately letsghostdance the Scottish Survey of Literacy and Numeracy (2014) doesn't uphold your claim.

It isn't racism, but it is a superior attitude. It just carries on with the constant attitude that Scottish people face in the UK, but that's a different thread really.

The SSLN and PISA were both completed in 2014. PISA rates Scotland higher than England in literacy and numeracy and lower in science. If the SSLN was so disastrous then what were the PISA results in the rest of the UK?

mrz, I think you've been quite offensive in your dismissal of the Scottish system of nursery before P1, and evidence-less assertions.

As I said, it's unlike you, so I would like to think it's down to a lack of experience of the two systems, and moving children between the two.

He will be fine. dS2 switched from Moyenne Section in the French system (2nd year of a 3 year nursery setup) into Year 1 of an academically pushy preprep. Although he entered not reading (no phonics even), not writing, and not doing any formal maths, he caught up by September of Year 2, and even gained a spot at an academically selective prep.

However, I have to agree with MRZ, that some extra support will have to be given. I had him have once a week sessions with someone to catch up on phonics, and to catch up on handwriting. Additionally, I had him read a book a day over the summer holidays after Y1. Once his reading caught up (he is now one of the stronger readers in his year with a reading age above 11y), his maths took off because he could now read the instruction.

I had a different situation with a child who had done Scottish P1, as one of the youngest in the class, moving to English Reception (and saying it was "too easy".) Then Year 1 felt like P1 really.

The way the OP's child falls into the older year group is going to make it a bit of a jump, but doable with a bit of support and understanding.

Where have I dismissed the Scottish system chocolate?

Don't say they might need support funnyossity ...it makes you racist!

Check your link letsghostdance ...December 2013 !

OP, if you are on facebook have a look at the group called "Flexible School Admission for Summer Borns" - some people have had success with requesting a Reception start at Compulsory School Age (term after a child's fifth birthday) rather than a Year 1 start at that age - and according to the new admissions code, LEA's are not supposed to have a blanket policy but are required to consider the best interests of the particular child. The onus should be on them to explain why they feel your son's needs are best met in Year 1 rather than Reception.

Funnily enough on entering P2, his (Scottish) teacher was impressed and used him in the staff room (lightheartedly) as a fine example of the Scottish Education system! I took her to be proud rather than racist.

mrz, okay, December 2013. So in the time between December 2013 and SSLN being undertaken in 2014 do you really think that there was that much of a change in Scottish achievement? I think that the numbers are very comparable. Scotland didn't enter for PISA in 2014 so we can't use the numbers from then.

I think you're really overreacting to chocolate's comment and your attitude is fairly poor. Calling it casual racism was putting a name to what the Scottish education system has to face when it's being compared to the English one. It isn't racism, but there's definitely a real edge of snobbery when comparing the two.

No letsghostdance the article is from December 2013 the PISA study is from 2012 and the SSLN states a decline between 2912 and 2014

That probably reflects the year group at the start of the CfE. There's absolutely no excuse for that decline at that point but from what I understand, the CfE wasn't implemented very clearly at the start. I can't comment because I wasn't teaching then, all I know is how it is now. I think that it's clear that all the UK countries have different ways of approaching things, and that each country has strengths in different aspects. We should all learn from each other and support each other rather than having certain members consistently belittling others.

GCC I actually am so confused with this idea that the Scottish curriculum is shambolic. I completely understand that it was at the start and I'm sure that some year groups right at the beginning were affected. There is no excuse for that. However, to me, the curriculum doesn't seem to be shambolic at all. I don't know if there's a difference between those who went through teacher training under it and never saw 5-14 and those who taught under 5-14/ it's predecessor?

I don't understand why we're talking about The Scottish curriculum / PISA at all.

We're talking about a child starting Y1 without having been to school before.

If they haven't been to school yet the excellence, or otherwise, of the Scottish system is surely irrelevant.

Just in case OP comes back..

I should have written "on entering Y2.."

I found the change of systems a little confusing too!

I think overall it's not something to stop you moving, it's a good age to make a move compared with later on in childhood when friendships are much more established.

Children enter London primaries in all year groups from all over the world, often with out any English. London has some of the best schools in the UK a immigrants often do extremely well at school.

I think to say that a child coming from Scotland might need a little handholding when they start school in year 1 is not racist. Reception is about learning the routines of school. This little boy will be experiencing a new country and a change of culture. Academically I am sure he will be fine as lots of children are not reading on starting year 1.

What is the op son like about practical skills like dressing, using cultery or bum wiping? If the op has attended a good nursery then his will know more than you expect.

Thanks Var, I received your private mail. I appreciate your advice and the time you've taken to respond and in respond it will be the Richmond area we are moving to. Don't know much about the area yet but it was either there or Sevenoaks, kent. Sevenoaks seemed a bit cut off and I need the opportunity to make friends or I will go insane!! ??
Worried more than ever now as he doesn't know how to read or write sentences ?? which seems to be a prerequisite. We will go ahead with getting a tutor but this won't start until he's in school and we know what the goalposts are. The school won't give us any further help until we have actually been allocated a place - but speaking to the admissions department all schools in our vicinity will be the same with regards to wait lists etc.
I feel sick at the thought of moving now.
We had a nursery/school party last night and my boy wouldn't join in and just sat beside me the whole time. He hates change and is very anxious about anything new - he will definitely need support.

It was a very looooong time ago now (early 80s), and so probably not at all relevant, but I did this move when I was almost 7. We moved from Edinburgh to London and I started in what was then top infants (so year 2).

I was absolutely streets ahead. So far ahead that the school didn't really know what to do with me. In the end I skipped first-year juniors (year 3) altogether. Which then caused problems at the end of primary school because the LA wouldn't let me go to secondary a year early so I ended up repeating the year.

I went to an inner-London primary school where lots of kids didn't speak English and where it was very multicultural so I had no problems at all with my accent or anything like that. When I went to a 'naice' secondary grammar school, though, it was a different kettle of fish. I was tormented so relentlessly that in the end I adopted a tactic of speaking in an English accent at school, and Scottish at home.

Emotionally though it was fine. I was happy as long as I was with my parents and my sibling. I'm sure your little boy will be similar.

Also, my son is an April baby and his friend, who lives in Edinburgh and who's 3 weeks older, started school a whole year later than him. However as far as I can tell, they were both exactly at the same point when they started y1 and p1. Reception in England is very like nursery in Scotland.

Don't worry. I'm sure it will all work out, especially as you seem very committed to getting it right.

In regard to practical skills ie dressing, toilet etc he is very competent and has been for a while. He is very capable and we do expect him to act as such - he helps set the table for dinner, helps sort the washing etc (he thinks it's fun that we all work as a team!)
He is very bright and his nursery have said that he 'exceeds expectations' and is ready for school. My big worry is his mental approach to learning - very sensitive and doesn't have a great deal of confidence. We've had discussions with health professionals about his anxiety issues. I know he will be capable of doing the work, but if he starts and is quite far behind everyone I'm afraid this will completely throw his confidence and inhibit his ability to actually learn or WANT to learn. Any teachers out there - how do I prepare him emotionally? Also, should I be looking at getting a tutor for longer than 6 months?
I don't take offence to any of the comments regarding the fact that he has had a Scottish education thus far, I can completely appreciate your point of view that the education systems are different and therefore he will need help adjusting and catching up. Thank you all.