private school for stability?

[Moominmamma86]

My partner and I have a low income and for various reasons have had to move a couple of times since ds was born, at the moment staying with parents while we look for something affordable in our area (in South east near London so that's a challenge!)
Ds is now coming up to three and I'm really anxious about what school he will get into - wherever we move we're likely to be relatively 'johnnie come lately' for the best state primaries aren't we? And then if we end up upping sticks again I don't know if ds would automatically keep his place at a state school or have to move elsewhere. In any case, the catchment areas of outstanding schools around here are hideously expensive so we're likely to end up out of reach.
Into the mix is an offer from my parents to pay for ds to go to a private school. The school in question in unquestionably fab and I think my son would thrive there, also it would be a huge huge weight off my mind to know he'll be somewhere like that and not depending on what given our circumstances will be a bit of a lottery.
I know it's hugely unfair really that we even have this option so I feel a bit sheepish posting. Part of me feels guilty for thinking of sending ds there but I also believe my greater duty is to give him the best I can. Further complicating things, I don't feel we can wait and see what happens re state schools as by then it would be too late to do anything anything.
For the sake of continuity and ds having a really good education, should we go private? My parents can afford it and are happy to pay. But part of me thinks it may be an unnecessary expense, or maybe ds won't benefit from being the 'poor' one at his school. I'm also a bit nervous personally of trying to fit in with SUV driving yummy mummie! Am I worrying ununnecessarily? And does anybody else have this level of grandparental help?

Thanks for clarifying it for me AtomicDog :) I feel a bit silly that I didn't know that!

I get what you are saying Mopmay, but my parents have specifically offered to pay the school fees for private school. They won't be directly giving us that money and I think they view it as a gift for their grandson. Maybe it could be argued that a better gift would be a permanent home, but for their own reasons they feel particularly strongly about education. I feel it's not really up to me as the 'gift recipient' to more or less say "Thanks, but actually could you buy us a house?" School fees are expensive yes and they only seem to get more so but I'm certain they would not have offered this if they couldn't sustain it. Also, finding the money to pay school fees on a termly basis is quite a different matter from finding the money to buy an entire house.

Our income is such that getting a mortgage, for now, would be pretty much impossible, so even giving us a deposit would be pointless at the moment. I hope that may change in the future and as I mentioned in some earlier posts I am currently working on getting myself into the position where I can earn a decent wage and perhaps get a small mortgage on something. My thinking re the private school was that maybe, given our current circumstances this would be something we (/my parents) could provide for ds that would be not just a good education but a real sense of continuity during his childhood which would not be affected by the chopping and changing that has been going on with our living circumstances (this isn't just about low income, we've also had some bad luck like being evicted from our previous place because the roof was leaking badly and the landlord was unwilling to do anything about it).
I'm honestly not sure about things like school uniform, trips etc. I'm sure we could find the money for uniform and I know they do sell it second-hand. I don't think there is an excessive number of trips, I guess we'd have to cross that bridge when we come to it. I take your point about not wanting to be the only kid who doesn't go skiing in their holidays, but at the end of the day I think fitting in and making friends is not largely about that. The school itself has a very caring feel and the children come across as incredibly sweet.

Of course, I have now been set straight about the admissions process for state schools so I need to think about that.

Do you think it's the case that ds would not be part of his local community if we do go private? What could I do to prevent that? I suppose in some ways he would be part of a strong school community in any case.

Hmm... thinking. Thanks for all the responses so far!

The community and how he will be part of it depends on whether friends will be local. If everyone travels 30 min from diff directions, then trying to pop into see a friend could be an hours journey. They may do
Lots of extra curricular stuff you can't afford or can't get to easily.
A big state school had the advantage that every time you go out to the park you see friends, they may all be local etc. On our tiny urban estate there are about 25 kids from school. They all play afferschool, see each other on the walk there etc The one prep school child gets left out often as he's just not in the same group. All his mates are a 20 min drive away at least

Think too about where you will feel most at home with other parents. Can you see yourself as part of that community? It may be of no interest to you, but it's what's right for all of you that's important.
I get that GP think money buys a top education but that can be simplistic

For community state schools, you just have to apply for a place via the Local Authority form, as others have said, and the Local Authority sets the admissions criteria for these schools. I was under the impression, though, that for, eg, CofE primary schools, you may also have to fill out the individual school's application form, as they can have additional criteria of their own that affect admissions. Basically, some of their places will be "community" places, for those living closest to the school, but a substantial proportion of the places will give priority to regular CofE churchgoers. You don't get any benefit from filling the school's form out years in advance, but such a school might within its admissions criteria prioritise members of its own Parish church over members of other congregations, and will prioritise practising Christians over non-Christian, non-churchgoers (or Christian non-churchgoers...). So to that extent, you might be at a disadvantage if you've moved around a lot, can't prove you ever go to church and have never been to the church connected with the school - if the school is oversubscribed and you don't live close enough to guarantee a community place, that is...

Don't worry about peer pressure re holidays cares etc, really it's a complete red herring.
My three attend fee-paying schools, and there are families in them with a very wide range of incomes, some of whom have a full bursary for fees, some of whom have fees paid for from trusts or grandparents, or extended family. Some have swish cars (mainly company perks), mid-range cars, old bangers, no cars.
Our catchment school before we moved though was very different- range rovers galore, three holidays a year, (skiing and Mark Warner, not Sun £9.50) etc. The open morning for prospective pupils was like a fashion show for Boden. It was a bit eerie, actually.

Local community- beavers/cubs, soccer or rugby teams, swimming, chess club, choir, dare I suggest even church if you're that way inclined.

How good is your relationship with your parents? Is it going to make you feel uncomfortable to have them pay your child's school fees? What if money does get tight for them? Do you know how they are planning to fund it? (eg cashing in pensions?...).

I did say it depends on the school and yes lots of Middle income people make the sacrifice to go private - but round us the private schools are still mainly two decent wage working parents with own home and comfortable life style including holidays, parties, social get togethers etc The average parent there is not a young low income couple living with parents.

The most efficient way for grandparents to pay for school fees is to set up a trust. IHT planning is presumably what this is all about, so setting up a trust to pay out the fees is the best way. They should take financial advice on how much will be needed in the trust so that you do not gave to switch to a state school because the money has run out. There are other ways they can pay school fees which also assist with IHT planning. If this is what they want to spend their money on, it is their choice. You will be fine with the other parents. You just have to avoid jealousy!

Can't a trust for HEd be set up? I am not suggesting other parents will judge - just how OP feels about it etc

Hi, I'm sorry - rather naive but what does IHT stand for? Ditto HEd.

Inheritance tax. If you parents have s property and cash worth eg £500k and they die, you inherit the money but get heavily taxed on it. This can be avoided by gifting it away early or trusts etc

I don't think jealousy is going to be a problem for me personally. I do envy people owning their own home just from a security point of view, but not in any hostile way. I don't aspire to any flashy lifestyle so it wouldn't bother me in that sense but I hope the majority of parents wouldn't be too much like that just from the perspective of having common ground.

I think she meant people jealous of you as you not paying !!! Higher education, HEd is very expensive - secondary is more than primary and uni is eye watering

Oh, inheritance Tax. I wouldn't really want to bring that up, it sounds a little grabby somehow. I may ask whether they're thinking along the lines of some kind of trust or what they're planning. Thanks for mentioning these things.

Could you broach it in terms of whether they just mean for prep school or for his whole education?
I am sure they are genuinely just wanting what they think is best for him but consider all angles.

Ohh, ok. yes I can see that being a factor but I'm not going to shout about my business either way.

At DS's prep school all trips (including residential) are included in fees so that wouldn't be a worry for you & there's a very good second hand uniform shop.

University education is paid for with loans, in the main, but saving up for topping up the maintenance loan is a good idea. Never pay the fees up front unless you are very rich.

You do not pay Inheritance Tax on all the money in an estate, just on the taxable amount above the limit. Cameron was saying he was going to increase it to £500,000 per person. But, it is 40% so lots of people try and spend a bit to get something they want to lower their tax liability after they die. This could be education for their grandchildren. It is very normal to do this but should only be done if there is surplus household money. Many schools will be £12,000 a year and will rise for senior schools. Make sure they can actually afford this.

Yes my iht explanation was just a pointer. Uni is funded by loans but I'd love my DC never to have large student loans round their necks in a few years ! The higher ed board makes scary reading

They may never pay back the student loan if they never earn enough to pay it back!!! It is the cheapest loan they will ever get and up you would be better off saving for their deposit for a house. The government is terrified of the projected non payment of student loans - around 50% of all students are projected to pay nothing.

Moominmamma - some people have strong opinions about state vs. private. All that matters is what you think is right for your child.

You still have a lot of time before you actually need to decide. You'll need to apply for state schools by some time in Dec. this year. By then you may have found a place to stay and you can get a pretty good idea of what schools he may get into.

You can visit the state schools and the private school again and decide then.

Moominmamma it's not being "grabby" to mention IHT . Gifts to relatives are only excluded from the estate in the event of death if the donor survives 7 years after the gift. If the worst happens the amounts given to pay school fees will form part of the estate for tax purposes. This is why they need to set up the arrangement in a way to minimise possible tax implications. They also need to consider their own needs in terms of care when they are are elderly and would be ill advised to leave themselves out of pocket in the future. You need to dot all the i's and cross all the t's when grandparents get into the business of paying school fees. You can't just assume anything- detailed discussion is what's required to cover all the angles mentioned here.

I should add that my MIL started paying for fees for my DC's and their cousins but was advised after a couple of years to stop when her health deteriorated partly for tax planning reasons and partly to ensure she could cover her own care costs if needs be. So I'm talking from experience!