Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

What happens if schools cannot recruit new teachers for September?

68 replies

calzone · 19/05/2015 23:14

Hypothetically speaking....Wink

If a school was to lose 11 teachers ( as they were retiring or just moving on), what would happen if no one applied for the vacancies?

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
TalkinPeace · 26/05/2015 21:11

If its an LEA school, they will parachute in enough staff : by hook or by crook.

Be thankful its not an academy.

Millymollymama · 26/05/2015 21:13

I worked in the public sector for years Nina. I was a governor of a secondary modern for 2 years. Yes, we are a selective LA so grammar schools get the best teachers. They are well led and retain staff. The best teachers gravitate to them. Few of these teachers get stress. It tends to be at the poorly led and managed schools.

I know the achievements where I was a governor were diabolical. The children deserved better and it improved. Lots of teachers went. As I said, some do need a different job. I could refer you to the pretty poor results in my LA at a whole load of secondary modern schools. Now plenty of these children go to university if they are in the better schools. Expectations and good teaching can make such a difference. Most people know where the best led schools are around here. They are generally not the ones descending into RI or worse. Are you actually saying that schools in the West Midlands only have 2/3 of their staff present at the moment? I don't think I believe that. Most likely 1/3 think they are stressed but the vast majority will be at work.

mrz · 26/05/2015 21:42

That's what happens in my (limited) experience TalkIn

TalkinPeace · 26/05/2015 21:47

mrz
My LEA lends out experts to others .... and an old friend was one of the parachuting staff for many years across all the southern counties

mrz · 26/05/2015 21:53

My LEA seems to be propping up neighbouring areas but as I said earlier they put advisors in to staff and lots of extra funding into a local school. Ofsted came and no surprise school was outstanding.

sideshowbob2 · 26/05/2015 21:56

it'll be teach first students or NQT's or supply teachers or ship in teachers from over sea's, we had 11 teachers resign one year and then had 2 leave throughout that year, one jumped and the other was pushed out!!

CharlesRyder · 27/05/2015 06:57

Nina I think no one is responding to your post in particular because it is old news. We all know, in depressing detail, why schools cannot get enough staff.

The question at hand is what do schools do about it if they cannot recruit.

My experience is that Ofsted do blame the school if they can't get staff. If a school says 'our teaching and learning is poor because 25% of lesson are covered by agency staff' then they will slate the Leadership and Management for not securing good teachers... Nice passing the buck there.

I thank my lucky stars every day that I work in a happy, well run school.

spanieleyes · 27/05/2015 09:01

I work in a happy, well run school but we can't recruit!

MrsUltracrepidarian · 27/05/2015 09:29

Even lovely schools will have difficulty recruiting because certainly in London, housing is so expensive that two teachers with young DC can't afford the wraparound childcare for the long hours, especially as you also need to pay a 'retainer' in the school hols even if you don't need it then.
A couple I know - really good teachers, have been relieved to both find jobs in a boarding school where they get accommodation, and eventually massively subsidised schooling for their DC. From their salaries they will be able to buy a 'buy-to-let' which won't make much money in ret, but which will be somewhere to live when they retire.

AsBrightAsAJewel · 27/05/2015 09:47

We're an "outstanding" school in a MC area, with happy staff, but we are struggling to recruit three new staff. No sinister reasons for the vacancies - retirement, decision not to return from maternity leave and spouse job relocation. Jobs happen to be one each phase across the school, so it can't be KS related!

mrz · 27/05/2015 10:36

I do think there are regional differences in recruitment and regional differences in the response LEAs would make to such a situation. It certainly appears that staff are jumping ship or perhaps some are being pushed difficult to say and any teacher looking for a new post is going to be asking why so many vacancies.

A new head could be a very positive thing. Even Ofsted could be a good thing in the long term but many people will be put off and some staff and parents will walk away from the uncertainty.

AtomicDog · 27/05/2015 10:44

It seems like an awful lot of staff to lose at once.
Parents will think there's an issue between staff and senior management.

mrz · 27/05/2015 10:58

The OP has said SLT have left but a new head is due to start this year.

TwigletPiglets · 27/05/2015 11:00

Is it is in challenging circumstances then it might get TeachFirst teachers. They basically train on the job but the entry requirements are very high and they (sometimes annoyingly!) always seem to be very good.

AsBrightAsAJewel · 27/05/2015 11:36

Out of curiosity - who mentors, supports and trains the Teach First teachers working in a primary school?

I ask this as I had a GTP trainee a few years ago - she was great, with masses of TA experience before starting the programme. But she didn't have a class of her own, she taught with me and it took a huge amount of my time, on top of my other commitments to support her. If Teach First is anything like this I wonder how over stretched schools can cope with this.

TwigletPiglets · 27/05/2015 13:19

As far as I know a similar model is in all schools ... it is basically a 3 pronged support system so if one 'prong' (i.e. the school mentor) is ineffective then the other prongs give extra support to make up for it.
They have an in-school mentor who would be someone like the deputy head. At first they would be in with them a bit (usually for maths and english) but ease off quickly depending on how the Teach Firster is progressing and the year group they are in. For schools where a mentor cannot devote as much time the Teach Firster's 'Teach First Officer' steps in and can come and do a lot of coaching and they all also have a university tutor who is in about every fortnight doing observations and supporting them, more if needed. Schools to have to think about cover though as they go to university for one day about every 4 weeks and at first they are on 60% timetables building up to the full NQT 80% by christmas. The teach first support model has worked for us - quickly identities who needs a support plan and then delivers it and reviews everything.
In short - Teach Firsters do have a class of their own. It is a tough route but I have seen 5 primary teach firsters either through them being in my school or coming for job interviews (then getting jobs with us!) and all have really surprised me with their efficiency.
The first two terms are really hard for them and when mentors/officers/tutors do a lot of work checking standards but first year easter onwards (from what I have experienced) they are usually very good-outstanding NQT level if not better. It annoys me (as someone who did years of training!!) but I am just constantly surprised at how quickly they get the knack of it and how incredibly committed they seem to be. However they select teach firsters is very efficient and does seem to consider who will cope and become a great teacher asap...of course with many bumps and tears along the way! And I must add I think I have been lucky with who we have been given and who I have come across - I know there is drop out! There is also the risk that they leave after two years which I can understand that some want to move on from where they have made their mistakes initially and others are placed in our school and long term don't want to live nearby. But for me it is the outcome at the end of the first year which makes it worth it. I understand it isn't perfect though!!
Hope that explains it AsBright

AsBrightAsAJewel · 27/05/2015 13:32

Thanks! I don't think we could sustain that as we have no capacity to mentor at that level at all really! All our staff, including SLT have full time teaching commitments, the head has to teach some sessions as well due to staffing and despite being a fairly large school. I can't imagine any teacher will happily to mentor someone as it adds to their workload and the cover for when the TF teacher is not available is another complication.

TwigletPiglets · 27/05/2015 13:55

Yes you do need a certain level of time. I do know of schools where a full time class teacher of another class has mentored a TF in the partner class successfully with some clever PPA arrangements. If you are looking into it then do talk to teach first though as we had a year we knew our usual mentor was going on maternity and would have a gap with only a very busy full time class teaching mentor would be able to mentor and they helped us find a solution. I was very skeptical when we first got teach first but am fully converted now (but realistic about its disadvantages/the risk too!)
We choose teach first over NQTs now as find we can really shape them into the kind of teacher we want them to be. TF are flexible about how you organise it all within your school. They do have high demand though and not all schools who want someone get one. We were put on a waiting list this year but have just picked our new one! So enquire quickly if it is a potential solution for you.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page