What happens if schools cannot recruit new teachers for September?

[calzone]

Hypothetically speaking....

If a school was to lose 11 teachers ( as they were retiring or just moving on), what would happen if no one applied for the vacancies?

They will bring a new head in. Probably temporarily to get things sorted. The teachers who have left may have gone on their own accord or may have been pushed. A new head can work wonders. Hopefully they will in this case.

New Head starts later this year.......

Have they all gone to the school with 161 teachers/TAs in another post?

I would assume the LA or school improvement partner is tearing their hair out! A new Head cannot magic up new staff immediately. They will have to rebuild the status and quality of the school so staff want to go there. I would think this will not be a quick fix. I bet you are glad you managed to find another school.

I am amazed that no-one has mentioned the reasons behind all these vacancies and changes of teachers etc. I live in the West Midlands and it was on BBC news last week that 1 in 3 teachers in the WMs are off sick with stress related illnesses. 1 in 3! I am in no way surprised. My son is a primary school teacher and my dil a Deputy Head at Primary. The workload is colossal and takes over their life - don't have time for their own children. I know many teachers who are leaving the profession for this very reason. It's just ridiculous - it's not just teachers, it's the same with all public services.

There is a huge shortage of GPs and only 10% of medical students opting for GP because of the workload and stress, same with nurses and social workers. This government is hell bent on demanding massive savings from public services (think education is ring fenced) but only because they have to do that - AND at the same time demanding better services. Can't be done, a 7 year old could tell you that!

I am 71 and had a social work career spanning some 30 years (retired 11 years now) and I loved every day of my job - today it is horrendous, especially in child protection work - again huge shortage of social workers, agency staff (no continuity) 30% vacancy rates, high sickness (stress related illnesses) etc etc. I was out with some long time friends recently, 3 of whom were retired teachers. They were talking of how they enjoyed teaching before all these targets and OFSTED and overwhelming workloads AND the kids made good progress..........

There seems to be a culture of bullying in school these days (my son was horrendously bullied by a new Head. He had worked at the school under the Head who appointed him for 4 years with no problems, except overload of work, but when the new Head came she made it clear she wanted to recruit her "own" staff and my son was the 4th person who she had "inherited" (her words) that she "bullied out." He now does supply and wouldn't go back into the class room full time for a king's ransom. I have heard of other teachers being bullied by Heads. I suppose they are being pressured by OFSTED and this is behind the bullying. It's still grossly unfair.

SO I think things will only get worse - it's time the government realised that they can't keep interfering in public services and setting targets and god knows what - they should leave people to get on with the job as they always did before OFSTED and the target driven culture. Of course people need to be accountable but there has to be a better way - Gove was a nightmare - called the entire teaching staff in the UK "the blob" and he was only side lined because he'd gone a bit too far with rubbing teachers up the wrong way, but Vicky Morgan is a puppet - Gove was still pulling the strings.

The system is broken but the real tragedy is things are going to get a whole lot worse. The govt will now push ahead with their privatisation agenda with gusto - more free schools and unqualified teachers (WHAT does that say to teachers who worked hard for their qualifications??) and Academies - just another name for private enterprise -schools run by businesses for profit and making big bucks for shareholders - totally ridiculous. BUT this is what we have - why should the cabinet be worried about your children and the changes in teachers, their children will either be among the 7% of children in the UK who are privately educated or will be at an OFSTED rated OUTSTANDING school in a affluent catchment area.

In the first post the OP said staff were retiring or just moving on ....seems that wasn't the true picture.

It is likely that in a school inspected as Inadequate, staff will move on because it is probably the quality of teaching that is inadequate. It is all vey well so say everyone should go back to pre Ofsted days, Nina, but in those days the children getting 5 decent GCSEs in my local secondary school was 19%. Many of the teachers were not inspirational or even good. Many were poor. It was just not good enough and let so many children down who could have done so much better. I honestly do not think many people want that. It is obviously not acceptable that someone is bullied out of a job. I have no doubt teaching is hard, but there are plenty of examples where teachers flourish and enjoy their work. It is not miserable everywhere.

As in so many jobs, targets are set. Teachers are not unique in this. Some people respond well to target setting and others do not. Some people end up in the wrong job. Lots of us have realised that and moved on, from all sorts of jobs. Few Heads can recruit their own staff to all vacancies. There are just not enough people willing to follow a Head around to do this. However, it can happen in some schools where the SLT is replaced by people trusted by the new Head to agree with them (and get the job done)!

I actually think all the best teachers are in the best schools, and definitely the best managed and led schools. The other schools scrape around to recruit the best they can from what is left. I do not mean to offend teachers, but in any profession, some practicioners are better than others. Therefore in my area it is the outstanding Grammar schools that have, in the main, the best teachers for all subjects. A few higher achieving secondary moderns can recruit well qualified staff, but all the other schools are really struggling to recruit good teachers in all subject areas, especially maths and sciences. They are in and out of RI and Inadequate, and have been for 20 years. I live in a leafy Shire County.

I have no doubt that the Grammar schools set just as exacting targets as everyone else. The difference is they have top quality leadership and children. I also know brilliant teachers who like to work in schools with challenging children. They find job satisfaction in that.

I agree teachers do need to be accountable, but having so many children not achieving their potential in the past, it is difficult to see past good teaching, good progress and achievable targets so children are not consigned to the scrap heap. Unfortunately for so many children, the constant use of temporary supply teachers does not help them achieve to their full potential and parents do not like 6 supply teachers a year! I am glad your son is happier doing this Nina. It is not the solution for the children!

Can I ask are you a teacher/Head and if so in what kind of school. You talk of the fact that only 19% of children in your local secondary school were getting 5 good GCSEs in pre OFSTED days, but surely you can't base your assertion that children were being let down by bad teachers on the results of ONE school. I don't have any stats, but my kids all went to the local comprehensive in the 1980s and all did well as did all of their friends and there was competition for places at the local 6th form college even then, so there must have been many pupils with good GCSE results to apply to do A levels. Incidentally I'm surprised you mention "secondary modern" schools - comprehensive education was introduced in our MBC in 1978!

I do realise that all is not miserable, and that some teachers thrive in their job. My dil is one such person - she is very fulfilled and an excellent teacher, and is now a Deputy Head. But of all the people I know who were teachers or are now teachers, she is the exception. Of course this is anecdotal but the fact that 1 in 3 teachers in the West Midlands where I live is off work with stress related illness isn't.........you appear to dismiss this fact in your post.

Do you have any stats to back up your comment "so many children in the past not achieving their potential....."

I don't think you're glad my son is happier doing supply - I think that's a sarcastic comment tbh - and NO I'm sure it is not good for the pupils, but he had to take this route as he was in danger of suffering "stress related illness" and more importantly was unable to be an effective father to his own children.

I'm a teacher in a state primary school and you'd probably be shocked by the sound of laughter from our staff room a clear sign of happy staff. Of course there's stress and pressure but it's still the best job in the world when you see your class making progress.

1 in 3 teachers in the WMs are off sick with stress related illnesses. 1 in 3!

Like a previous poster, I am a supply teacher, only do day-to-day, and secondary as there is enough work to do that, but get endless requests to do long-term, which I won't do as the workload is the same as permanent, and the workload is crazy. I don't do primary because the marking workload is utterly ridiculous - way beyond what is reasonable to help the DC to progress.
All the good primary teachers I know are either leaving or desperate.

The union figures suggest 9-10 teachers have thought about leaving the profession . Yes been there! In my case a new deputy head trying to impose practice from previous school which he claimed were his reasons for leaving ?? it took a small rebellion from the SLT to sort things out ... Yes I'm lucky Think we all have had times when we question whether it's worth it but whether we would seriously quit a job we love is another thing.

Outsiders do not really know about or understand the work of teachers... Of which a small percent is spent with the actual children. Horrendous heads exist and in a school it all comes down to the head. We should be concentrating on the children and am! Work we do should be focussed on their benefit. It isn't lots of it is paper work for paler works sake and the only person it is for is Ofsted. Is this right? Because actually the children are suffering be a use their teacher spent 4 hours doing paper work the previous night, is exhausted and fully in the room with them... Which is what they should be.

Horrendous typing on tablet. Hope previous post is even readable.

What do you mean mrz?

The teachers are moving on or retiring.

The stress on them is horrific.....why would you stay if you could move on and work somewhere better?

Like Tesco?

No, like better schools which have a strong SLT and better communication.

What do I mean?

It certainly wasn't clear from your first post that they were retiring due to stress.

The problem with moving on is that the next school isn't guaranteed to be any better and could be a lot worse. With over half the staff unhappy perhaps call in the union?

8 teachers are changing schools.

Most office staff are leaving/ retiring.

Ks1 leader is retiring.

1 teacher is moving to do ppa.

2 have relocated.

Not sure what I said that you misconstrued.

You said "half the staff plus SLT" and a new head starting? Don't think I've misconstrued anything sorry if I gave but it might be helpful to give details in your first post rather than drip feed

Grrrrr..........was not drip feeding at all.

I simply asked what would happen if school could not recruit teachers for September.

But then added all the additional information so unintentionally drip fed

Oh whatever, mrz.

Was just a question.
Not sure I care anymore.
Ds is no longer there and I can do another year.

Thanks for the comments from everyone else.

Whoops the teachers are arguing between themselves now! I'm disappointed no one has commented on my post apart from millymandy - I think there are so many people who don't follow the political agenda - don't really understand that, especially for people in the public sector.

Try reading the thread

((Head explodes))