Ks2 sats week 2015

[Catbat77]

I have a very nervous dd this morning, wanted to hear other parents thoughts or experiences this week!

Not the best of weeks. DD1 was in tears Tues afternoon sitting her paper as did not expect to be writing in her L6 SPAG....they have had a handful of boosters to prepare them :( she then had an asthma attach that evening and was in tears as couldn't sleep at 1.30, she was exhausted Wednesday morning which was supposed to be her ok day.
When I raised the issue of her not being prepared I was told they had been working all year. Since they only identified L6 pupils mid March and boosters sorta red after how can that be so? I think it was very irresponsible not to prepare them for those papers - they Are tough. They certainly haven't been doing this in class.
DD1 ok now but think this could have been avoided!

No, nothing like as much as that - but you stated that a child should NEVER be withdrawn from a curriculum lesson, and it was that 'NEVER' that I am questioning.

(My DD, who dances to a national competition level, misses approximately 3 half days a year for exams, and about 2 more days for competitions. DS, who plays music to a county level and sport to a school level, misses 20 minutes at the end of the day c. once a fortnight for sports fixtures, half a day once a year for exams, and on average I would say approximately 2 days a year for extra opportunities / trips offered to him by the school as a musician / sportsman. Both compete in intra-school competitions which are not always confined to games lessons. Both secondary)

Up to now not one has come up with a real situation where it would be necessary it all seems to be hypothetical

Mrz, I have just posted about my own children. I have also said that the music lessons offered by my school are so numerous that they cannot all be timetabled within class music lessons. I cannot post may more details as it would make the children I am discussing totally identifiable.

Teacherwith2kids isn't that you as a parent keeping your child/ren off school to attend rather than them being withdrawn from a lesson?

I suppose it boils down to:

• Do you believe that schools should offer music lessons, and if so, do you think that the number has to be restricted by the number that can be accommodated within class music lessons (which of course would impact on the breadth of the music curriculum those children received).

• Do you believe that children who learn music or dance outside school should not be able to take exams, as these usually fall within the school day?

• Do you believe that it is wrong for some children to be able to benefit from a differentiated e.g. sporting, musical, drama, chess opportunity just because it is not available to the others and does not fit into the school timetable?

• Do you believe that the school curriculum ALWAYS takes precedence over all oter aspects of a child's life and their preparation for their future?

I have a pupil who competes at a national level in an activity not available in school. Approxmately once a term, they have to travel abroad to compete, and this means an early departure from school. It is very likely that this child will represent GB at this activity as an adult. Is it right for the school to say 'no, you cannot miss the last lesson on Friday ever, because that is more important for your future than the out of school activity that is likely to be your life'?

I can give you similar examples for gifted children e.g. taking part in professional theatre productions etc, but as I say, I am trying to enable those children to remain non-identifiable.

DS, no. All of his, except music exams, are being withdrawn from a lesson. You could equally say that, by parents paying for in-school music lessons, they are requesting the time out of lessons, if you are trying to make that the distinguishing feature.

So is your point now that it is absolutely fine for children to miss lessons IF their parents have requested it, but not for school organised activities?? It does seem a very odd distincton. So a child competing e.g. as a soloist in a music competition is fine, but the school taking the choir for the same competition is not?

Teacherwuth2kids your examples all seem to be parents raking their child out of school to participate in activities they excel in outside of school ... Not examples of a school withdrawing pupils from lessons ... There is a difference.

If a parent decides that their child should spend the day attending a music exam or competing in Britain's Got Talent the school has no duty to try and accommodate that decision but they should ensure that pupils who are in school don't miss lessons and receive their statutory entitlement to all of the curriculum.

No my point isn't that it's absolutely fine if parents have requested it. My point is that a parent keeping a child out of school isn't withdrawing a child from a lesson

There shouldn't be any inflexible rules e.g. DD had a peri. music lesson once a week in a class Numeracy slot which was a perfectly sensible arrangement and probably improved her maths (less boredom).

It takes more flexibility to ensure that children receive their entitlement than it does to shrug and say "x goes out for violin so they'll just have to get by on 4/5ths of their maths lessons"

Well as a parent I'm a LOT more interested in quality than box-ticking quantity (entitlement).

So how much quality do you get from 4/5ths of the service?

To be fair, can we only expect 4/5 of expected progress? This is why I don't understand how schools allow so much out of class time for core subjects, particularly with recent school term holiday fines. I find it a little hypocritical

I imagine people wouldn't be happy if they paid for a tutor who only turned up 4 weeks in 5 or music lessons that last only 48 mins rather than the hour paid for ...is it because education is free it isn't valued by some?

In general, though, it is much less than that - lessons are usually 20 mins- 30 mins, and most schools rotate what lesson each child misses. So in the case of 30 minute lessons , just to make it easier to demonstrate - a teacher teaching all day will have 7 of those in the morning (start early, work across break), 1 at the start of lunch, then 4 more during the afternoon (starting early). Each child / group is rotated through those 12 slots. So on average, once every 6 weeks they will miss half an hour of maths - so 1/10th of their entitlement that week as we have hour long lessons, 1 / 60th overall.

Even in the worst case scenario of a teacher only teaching in the morning - we have only one of those - which is when we have Maths lessons, the child will miss half a maths lesson on average every 4 weeks, so 1/40th of their entitlement.

1/40th of their entitlement of Maths vs the ability to play a musical instrument well?

And as I say, our data shows that children who have musical instrument lessons make rather more, rather than rather less, progress than average.

What is the teacher and class doing during that 30 mins?

They can still learn an instrument our pupils do.

So in the 30 mins (plus walking to and from the lesson) what us the teacher and other pupils doing?
what happens when the child comes back and doesn't know what to do because they missed the teacher input?

In what numbers do your children learn instruments, mrz? We have nearly 200 (half the school) learning with peripatetic teachers, plus 90 who learn an instrument as a whole class for a year.

And obviously, if a child has missed the teacher input, the teacher or TA - I know that you do not have TAs, but we do - works 1:1 or in a small group with them for a short while to give them the input that they need. On the very rare occasions - I can think of just 1 child - where the interruption, even for 1/60th of their Maths time, had a negative impact, the relevant instrumental teacher flexed their timetable in conversation with the class teacher to avoid that specific subject.

(To be mathematically pedantic, the 90 who learn as part of a whole class will include some children who also learn another instrument with a peripatetic teacher. Every child in the school will have 1 year of whole-class teaching during their years with us. Half of the school at any point is having instrumental lessons in small groups or individually with a peripatetic teacher.)

A hundred- hundred and twenty learning instruments about fifty working with peripatetic teachers this year.

So these children can complete the lesson in half the time the rest of the class need ...