My son is a space cadet - it's official - I (and his teacher) would rather he wasn't

[indignatio]

ds is 4 and a quarter. He started Reception in Sept and is now on his third full week of full time.
My lovely little boy doesn't seem to exist in the evenings - instead I have this whirling dervish. He seems to be constantly doing stuff he is not (and knows he is not) allowed to do.
In the mornings, he is usually great (slow see below but polite, nice and what I remember as my pre school child).
After school we usually have 3 playdates a week and one gym club. He doesn't ever seem physically tired after school, but I wonder if he is mentally tired - does this exist ?

Both at home and school he is often in a world of his own. He often doesn't listen to instructions and wonders around aimlessly. If I get his attention and ask him to do something (eg get dressed)he may move in the direction of his clothes but after 20 seconds will have been distracted by something and will forget what he is supposed to be doing.
At school the teacher asks him to repeat the instruction and he still goes off track.
At home we have tried the timer / rewards / step - but nothing can keep him focused.
(If I say so myself) he is a bright boy and if interested in something can actually be engrossed in it for long periods of time. If not, he needs someone standing over him saying - good, now the right sock - well done, now your trousers etc. As he is an only child, I can do this (although I do find it frustrating) but there is no way the poor teacher/TA can do this for him.
After all that:
1.Why the need to kick against usual rules after school ?
2.Is it possible to be mentally tired and if it is - what can I do about this ?

1. How can I encourage him to concentrate on the task in hand ?

Many thanks if you have waded through all of this

Oh - he has 11 hours of sleep a night - every night

tbh he sounds very normal for his age. My dd is about the same age but does not go to school yet (Scottish system). She woudl be unable to do a lot of things without someone standing over her to check. AS for teh evening stuff, my ds (nearly 7) is like this when he is tired - he becomes a real pain in the neck doing stuff he is not allowed to do and being generally annoying.
Sorry - can't advise how to fix it but think it all seems quite normal!

He is 4. This is normal -- sorry.

Not trying to be unhelpful, but truly, this is entirely to be expected. He's young for the year anyway some of his classmates will be turning 5 around now. School is far, far more mentally and emotionally tiring than nursery a child who's been doing full 8-6 days in a day nursery can still be completely wiped out by 3.5 hours in a school nursery class, never mind a reception class. The kicking off after school thing is completely normal as well -- they've spent a day trying (maybe not v. successfully!) to fit in with 29 other children and the teacher, and they're shattered. You, the loving mother pick them up from this, and the effort they've been putting in to hold it together all days drops and BAM. Shoving food at them as soon as they come out of the door helps. A bit. Ds was a little swine after school until well into Year 1.

I would tone down the after-school activities tbh. Expect very very little from him and try putting him to bed much earlier than usual -- my July-born ds in the early days of Reception used to fall asleep on my bed at 5pm after an early tea and sleep through till 7.30 in the morning. Frankly when awake they're likely to be so horrible to know that they're better off asleep.

The dreaminess in school is, frankly, the teacher's problem. I wouldn't stress about it, you've got enough on your plate. Very very gradually school routines will become automatic for him and his ability to focus will improve. Ds's lovely Reception teacher once told me that faffiness is a sign of intelligence -- they're thinking about too many things at the same time to be able to focus on one.

Thank you for your replies

I do think that noise can be an issue. If I talk when the TV is on then there is no way he will hear me - and we don't have it on loud !
I help in the class once a week and although the teacher does try to keep the noise levels down, they are certainly higher than we are used to at home.
My gut feeling is that it is not physical tiredness
We do try quiet time - 1/2 hour in front of TV on getting home from school just to chill out - before people arrive/we have to go out. I save his homework until days we are not seeing anybody or the weekend - as I think it is just too much for him at the end of a day at school. We do however, do his book reading and flashcard words over breakfast - because he is fresh !

Thanks frogs - faffiness - great word
If he went to bed at 5pm (for example) he would be awake at 4am - he really only needs 11 hours - trust me on this one

Three playdates is quite a lot.

My ds is the same. I think it's just the way he's made. He has lots of skills and talents, but organisation and concentration are not among them.

My ds1 (now 7) was a lovely wee boy, polite etc. He went to school fine, but every single day when he came out the classroom he would give me dog's abuse in front of everyone! It got so bad I spoke to his teacher, wondering if he was like that in the classroom, she said no, he was perfectly well behaved. It was like he was trying so hard to be good and do as he was told for 6 hours, then when he saw me, he could relax and let rip!! It didn't last long, but long enough to upset me.

Now he's appallingly annoying. He never listens. He forgets instructions almost immediately. He cannot concentrate on anything from getting dressed to eating dinner.

Perfectly normal boy!!!

However, we have resorted to omega 3 tablets and keeping our fingers crossed!!!

I think this is completely normal. I have two August-born boys who both found starting school exhausting. This manifested itself in different ways - DS1, always more hyper, became a whirling dervish like your son, as well as explosive and defiant. Food immediately definitely helped. DS2, the calmer of my 2, just wanted to flop in front of the TV and suck his thumb for an hour.

I think 3 playdates a week might be quite a lot - I did about one a week at first.

Both of mine are expert faffers and DS1 has explained it himself just as Frogs did: "I've got too many interesting things to think about to just concentrate on numeracy."

Thanks Pamina - we do have a routine in the mornings which means that should he get dressed in a reasonable period of time (15mins !!) there is time to watch a bit of TV before setting off for school. I hope this is sinking in (albeit slowly) as I was clearly the unkindest mother in the whole universe on a couple of days last week went he had taken so long that there was no time for TV.
Sticker charts seem to lose their impetus for him after a couple of days - but eh a couple of days is better than nothing
Praise from the teacher is probably a good idea. He is thrilled when he does get a sticker from school (haven't had one for the last couple of weeks) - not sure how I can ask the teacher to give him a sticker for what he was supposed to do in the first place - she could have a mutiny on her hands

Hi Indignatio

When DD1 started school last year she was absolutely mentally exhausted by the end of each day and would invariably fall deeply asleep in the car on the way home. For the first couple of terms she had a maximum of one playdate per week after school; it would have been nice for her to do more, but she was just not up to it. What she needed was food, almost immediately, and lots of chill-out time in front of Cbeebies. At least an hour. To counteract the 'whirling dervish' thing, you might addsome unstructured physical exercise. So the end of the day would go pick up, high-carb snack within the first ten minutes, playground (perhaps with friend), tea, blob, bed.

Thanks fmg - I have bought Omega 3 tablets - but not opened the packet yet.
Singersgirl - thanks - will try the food - or maybe a smoothie.
re the playdates - ds has expectations !! He knows that we see x on Mon, Y on wed and a whole crowd on Fridays. I think I would find it hard to wean myself off the playdates (note to self - for whom are these playdates ?) - I get to see the Mummies with whom I have spent the last 4 years

Thanks Issymum. How do you recognise mental tiredness rather than the physical type

We do tend to hit the playground on the walk home (20 minute walk). There is no way ds would fall asleep in a car after school.

Very much agree with Issymum.

When dd was in Reception last year, I avoided having friends over for the first term, I think we only had two or 3 in total. I think 4 days of after-school activity is too much at this age tbh as many ohthers have said, Reception is a whole different ball game compared to nursery - mental tiredness does exist!

Sounds like both me and DS
I was horrible at that age.
(so what's changed)
I'm not sure if my methods for dealing with it are that portable, but I offer them anyway.

I'm guessing but I think reward/punishment is quite possible doing more harm than good. Builds up frustration, and since the underyling bug is not thinking things through, this will only work after the problem is fixed.

Most tasks don't demand close attention. If you "wander off" whilst putting on socks, the downside is not that deep.
Reading is good, and that may well involve comics, and other constructive things that require attention. Your DS is at an age where instant messaging on your PC can be both fun and educational.

But the thing that seems to help focus best is doing something "dangerous". That's of course a bit scary when you have a low attention span 4yo, but I've found things that have good apparent risk that require he pays attention without much danger of things ending badly.
Cutting vegetables up, DS has seen the scars on Daddys hand from not paying attention.
The other thing that works for us, is serious walking, ie to the point where he genuinely can't put one foot in front of another. I'ts hard to articulate the mental state without some very dodgy computer analogies, but try it anyway.

I think you're right about mental tiredness, but it's probably out of balance since school often doesn't always physically tire kids.

Thanks Mercy - will try to cut down on the playdates. Suggestions for chill out time (other than the TV or computer) would be gratefully received

mine was a similar age when he started school. He was exhausted and he was only doing half days. Exhausted for him manifested itself in manic behviour (whirling dervish about describes it).

I would say he is totally overtired - but out the playdates etc - and maybe go back to part-time school or miss one day per week.

(haven't read the rest of the thread yet - so just in repsonse to the first question).

Thanks DC - I know exactly where he gets it from - I can flit from task to task unless completely engrossed - and the things I have found out from Mil about dh when a child (only since ds was born - don't think she wanted to scare me off ) suggest he is also genetically responsible.
Other dangerous suggestions are welcome - he loves cooking -including using the food processor and electric whisk. He loves climbing. He can focus when he puts his mind to it - but getting dressed and putting his book bag were it is meant to be - just don't rock his world.

Thanks throckenholt - I quite fancy him cutting a day of school per week. To be honest I miss doing the things together which we did prior to Reception and I think he also misses the fun.

Things one or other of my DSs liked for chilling out - me reading stories to them, playing with Play-Doh, listening to music and having a dance or just singing along. For mine, drawing or painting would have been too much like hard work, as would board games.

We also have a small trampoline which is great for using up bounciness.

The mental tiredness is I think why your DS gets dervish-like. Swimming always physically exhausts them too, but it is another 'thing' to fit in.

The kind of things my dd finds relaxing is art and craft type stuff - anything like playdough, painting, colouring-in, collage. Also reading.

Or just playing with her toys!

Thanks Singersgirl.
I hesitate to mention it - but he has swimming lessons on a Sat am
Until the nights started drawing in - he would be out on the trampoline with his friends after school. Perhaps this is part of the problem - he does get less physical activity with his friends now as usually they would be outside from 4pm until supper time. Now they play inside.

I actually miss reading to ds - dh does the bedtime stories - I get the school reading book over breakfast - I will definately start reading to him again after school.